The State of the Nation (Ulster)

Talk about the men in white, and everything Ulster!!

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Russ
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Re: The State of the Nation (Ulster)

Post by Russ »

Rooster wrote:
rumncoke wrote:Baggy , I am not to sure I buy the BoI pressure story , The BoI only went public after the decision was made and before the decision became public, I fear it may be a smoke screen and a little bit of glory hunting on the part of the BoI.

My money would be on the deal was made with the various " Woman's Groups " who had been using the the trial as a Rallying device to forward a Political agenda , and regardless of the decision of the court were hell bent on maximising the opportunity .

The evidence to support this point of view is an article by Elaine Crory on sluggard O Toole who identifies that 5 Womans'groups in Belfast met several days before the decision of the Jury to consider how they would proceed after the decision was announced.

The fact that they met before the decision was announced would lead one to conclude that despite all there claims to "Ibelieveher " they in fact understood, like everyone else , based On Dara Florence's evidence and unreliability of the claimants evidence, no rape had occured. The point is also made that "these protests are not an agitation to overturn a legal verdict "
Although I am not convinced of that since the rallying call was "Ibelieveher" " Say no Misogyny in rugby etc rather than reform rape law., if that was their intention.

The second fact to support it was due to a possible agreement with these woman's groups, is the silence which has descend on the hordes since the announcement .

If the sacking of the players was not the intention of these Groups but the acceptance of their 5 demands as outlined in slugger O Toole -- Why the silence ? Why have the demands and accusations about Rugby and the IRFU ceased ?

Yes a review is now being under taking of how Rape trials should proceed but this was announced after the IRFU decision .
It is very simple rummy, those groups like all women's groups fell out with each other over the aims of the protest and subsequently the funding of a rape support centre plus some support the repeal of the 8th amendment in ROI and some are pro life supporters, next date in their diaries is 14th May at the gasworks Radisson when the Pro life ones are having a meeting and the repeal the 8th mob are going to protest at it.
So anyone who is free can go watch the bitchfest 7:00 9:30 pm
I dont think they understand that someone who is pro choice can make a choice to be pro life

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Re: The State of the Nation (Ulster)

Post by Liz Fraser »

BaggyTrousers wrote:So much to say, where to start? It has been as bad a season as I can remember but for so many reasons, many completely unseen before this season.

Let's start at the very beginning, a very good place to start ............

No Ruan Pienaar, a loyal player who had no loyalty returned to him by the FIRFU & gobshite Australia David Nucifora in particular, all the more galling when you see Isa Nacewa continuing to block clearly talented players at Leinster, more on a similar vein to come.

First up, the Cheetahs from South Africa, the game started with Marcell Coetzee playing like Superman, destroying everything in his way, ably supported by Jean Deysel who followed in Marcell's wake demolishing the survivors, making his own yards. Well, we got about 30 minutes of it then bye bye Marcell for the season.

From there it has been mainly downhill. Already the shadow of missing players Jackson & Olding was a huge concern, not made easier by the signing of a world-class centre Christian Leali'ifano to play outhalf. He turned out to be what you would expect, not quite there as a top class 10 but a player full of sweet ability and a brave man as he showed in spades when being assaulted by Munster. Tough as old boots. Great player but in fairness, not close as a 10 to Paddy Jackson.

With Marcell Coetzee confirmed out for the season, my understanding is that Ulster knew the risks and no injury replacement was allowed. Contrast this with Munster for example over the last to years, when they have had a problem they have been able to go and recruit players, not Ulster.

(for a little good news, I understand that Ulster's go to ACL medical expert has said he thinks Marcell's repair is very stable and he is apparently running freely.)

So after early soft fixtures, with no Ruan, Marcell Paddy or Wee Stu, the season went sharply downhill. Defeated by Zebre, Kiss the defensive genius was going at Ulster record pace to a new all-time worst, having set the mark under his own rule last season. Poor teams finding the Ulster defence no issue, the first clear sight of disaster away to Stade Rochelais, ripped apart.

There followed one of the most dispiriting losses I can ever recall suffering, a 10-25 utter kicking from a Leinster team who never bothered getting out of 2nd gear. There followed the bizarre win in the Townships when we attempted to gift the game to the mighty Kings who got their first two points of the season, the performance an utter shambles.

Then we snatched a richly undeserved last-minute win at home to Treviso and then blew a comfortable win at Dragons, having collapsed but again a late try salvaged a draw. What was becoming clear was that if our rugby was shyte, there was still heart on the players and talk of Lions lead by Donkeys started to emerge.

Kiss was becoming a man under immense pressure at this stage, a man who like our CEO, had very little history to suggest the leap from defence coach to DOR would work. Back to back wins over Hairyquims in the SDC hinted a slight recovery, then the shyte was really about to hit the fan, three successive derbies starting in Galway.

A record defeat and an utter humiliation, at the hands of a team who were having their own troubles, finding wins very hard to come by, but a 44-16 did not flatter Connacht one bit, the only bright point a brief cameo for young McPhillips who hinted he might have a part to play when Leali'ifano departed in mid January.

There followed a shocking first half with the pack and in particular Diddies & Rodders being taken apart & the lineout an utter shambles, then late in the third quarter Darren Cave started the comeback with a peach of his own then a lovely kick through for Gilroy to score and remarkably, with Sam Arnold rightly red carded for a disgusting assault of Leali'ifano, Rob Lyttle secured 5 points with a late try.

Business "as usual" resumed away to Mexico with a 38-7 disaster in which the superb Stockcube had a nightmare as did his partner in crime, Piutau, air tackles the main feature. There followed a beating up by Wasps to crash out of the SDC and then that was it for Kiss, gone but the damage he did and the appalling man management of Darren Cave & GLU, Andrew Trimble, particularly inexplicable. This followed his inexplicable act of almost literally throwing Aaron Cairns under the bus as it got ready for the trip to South Africa, a humiliating experience that must have been.

So, gone but not forgotten, the first big change. Step forward Jono Gibbes, a man we had such expectation in ......... but wait ........whispers emerged that he had no interest in becoming the boss, a man happy to coach but no interest in the bullshit that goes with the DOR job. Not much later it was to emerge that he not only didn't want the job but he was leaving in the summer.

All the while the Belast Rape Trial was it has become known got underway and from early days it appeared the prosecution had hoped their best hope of a conviction was to blacken the character of men who turned out to be falsely accused. How utterly bizarre that the supposed key witness for the prosecution turned out to give the deciding testimony in favour of the defence.

As everyone predicted, there would be nobody coming out of this case undamaged. The young gentlemen stained by their supposed private bullshit on WhatsApp, the young lady shown to be an unreliable witness and indeed a liar for her second foray into the business of crying rape. Further casualties were the news media whose coverage was to be characterised as "Clickbait", social media through the mountains of hate delivered from all sides and factions in the arguments and I have to say the Twatter reporting from "so-called" journalists drove a coach and horses through our legal system.

One particular star in all this was the BBC's Mark Simpson who managed to draw the ire of just about everyone who saw his reports, irrespective of who they were supporting, and supporting is the right word, this became like an unsporting contest, much of the proceedings largely irrelevant for with everyone in Ireland being granted Barrister status, experts in their own lunchtime offered irrefutable facts dredged from their complete lack of facts.

Meanwhile, that was tucked away for another day FIRFU/UR promising an in-depth enquiry & review.

At Ravenhill, Edinburgh was gifted a win late in the game. With the lead changing a few times Ulster appeared to have closed the game out leading 16-14 with the 80 minute up on the clock, Ulster were in the Embra half but conceded a penalty. Wee fat Duncan Weir kicked badly, missing touch but the legend that is Tommy Bowe dropped the ball, bounced infield and as rugby balls do, made a back to front of Tommy kicking back toward touch and giving Embra a final attacking chance.

Those who expected any other finish have never heard the expression "never give a sucker an even break" as, with the clock red, Embra worked a position in front of the posts for Wee Fat Weir to win the game with a DG. An absolute calumny, a game thrown away and something Ulster would regret at their leisure.

At this time Stockcube was away breaking records for Ireland and establishing himself as a star performer. It has been noticeable since then that his very presence causes panic in defences who tend to stand off him, it's quite bizarre, he is to Ulster what Will Griggs supposedly is but isn't, a cause of real chaos and self-doubt in defenders. Well done young man a great season.

So over to Scarlets and from 10-10 after 54 minutes, Ulster subsided to a TBP win for Scarlets. Not what was required after the late collapse to Embra. Next to Cardiff but that game was effectively lost after 12 minutes with Cardiff 14-0 ahead and they scored the TBP right at the death. At this point, it looked for all money that not only were the playoffs out of sight but the last place in the SDC qualifying was in real danger as Treviso closed the gap.#

In all this time, there was barely a word emanating from the CEO of Ulster, Terry Slogan, so-called as a part-time soldier who would have you believe he alone secured the Falkland Islands for Her Brittanic Majesty Betty and having served in and commanded upwards of 5 elite regiments, a trained killer par excellence. In addition to his military chops, he had lied through his teeth on his CV to secure the Ulster job, about the only claim he didn't make was that his real name is Clark Kent. That apart his level of operation in several past jobs was inflated above their real station. Add to that his infamous bullshit about World Domination and there you have it Terry the weekend warrior, Slogan his WD mantra, happily being a match for Slogan S Logan.

Time & again, where le bon mot should have come from him, it came from others, be that coaches, Ops Manager Bryn or Marketing guru Fiona. His impersonation of the Invisible Man was flawless as no supporters meeting saw his smug face, yet he claimed to be meeting "thousands of people" as part of his job.

Amongst CEO's there is a general sense that you publicly lead your organisation, demonstrate that you are in charge and have the integrity to front up when things are demonstrably going pear-shaped. Not Terry Slogan, he was yet to make his statement that would see him attract unprecedented loathing within the organised supporters clubs and forums.

After the Cardiff disappointed, during the next week the Jackosn & Olding trial, featuring Blane feckin' McIlroy and thon big lad were unanimously and unequivocally cleared of all charges. This, of course, was entirely expected as the Prosecutions star witness & the only eyewitness had testified. You had to ask yourself, if this was what the prosecution relied upon, then how in God's name did this ever come to court? My understanding is that local the prosecution service did not recommend the evidence as strong enough to take to trial, that a second look was also a negative response but finally Tony Knobjob thought, feck it, I'll do it. I seriously hope he has damaged his reputation, this was a farce based on lies and should never have been allowed to do the damage it has. More later.

So back on the pitch as people were beginning to doubt that Ulster might win another game, suddenly the team found something, the missing confidence, the desire that had appeared patchy at times and most importantly, their will to win and not slump quietly into the Parker Pen.

An excellent TBP win secured by our beast from the east Hendy at the death, gave some hope, then a comprehensive win though a mere 8-0 in which they dominated the ball but a mix of inaccurate finishing and excellent Ospreys defence held sway.

Back with Messrs Jackson and Olding, there was an announcement that there would be a swift review by the FIRFU & UR. I can tell you that no such review was done, at least not in any transparent sense, there was no review, no interview with the players and their representatives. They were told to appear in Dublin and met with a fait accompli, all done and dusted no input from them required, no opportunity to even speak, simply this is what is happening, this is you offer to go quietly, take us to court and we will crush you like a bug, we have loadsa money and you are without a pot to pish in having spent a fortune to defend yourself.

If you thought that it was just Paddy & Stu who have had their lives ruined, well you would be wrong both families have suffered emotionally & financially and both are still being pursued by the press, still receiving threats from social media trolls to ruin their lives to the greatest extent possible, some having tried to warn off all future employers, some vile creatures have made libellous accusations about the eye-witness and suggest the families bought and paid for her evidence. This has been a sickening realisation that on the back of lurid press coverage an army of avenging trolls has taken up their cudgels.

Amidst it all, stands the FIRFU and smug liar Terry Slogan, who finally crawled out from under his rock to relish giving BBC lightweight Mark Simpson the news that he has been waiting for months to deliver, "we unanimously decided to cancel their contracts" & of course, "we don't envisage them playing for Ireland or Ulster in the future". I can also tell you unequivocally that this loathsome liar, this man apparently devoid of Christain forgiveness nor tolerance of those without his personal beliefs, told the Ulster squad that "we do not want these sort of people at Ulster" and that the squad should prepare for life without them. That little tidbit was given before the verdict was even announced.

Of course, Terry Slogan lied when he said they voted unanimously to cancel their contracts, because whilst there may have been an internal decision made to succumb to Bank of Ireland & Vodaphone pressure, there was no decision made after a review with the players, all was decided without any personal hearing. I have personal knowledge from two different sources that both families have confirmed they were told that it was a case of the huge Bank of Ireland sponsorship or them - no contest. The fact is that there was no meaningful review, no chance to offer any defence, no tolerance, no admission that their not guilty verdict meant anything.

And so dear friends, that brought us up to yesterday when a third successive performance of substance against the team with the best record in the league, put to bed the horror of finishing below Treviso. It may even end the need for a playoff should Leinster or Cardiff win either the SDC or Parker Pen. Should a playoff be required it will be between Ulster and Ospreys, Ulster will have home advantage in a one-off game. The slight chance that Ulster may yet pip Embra remains but is so minuscule that it's not worth sharing the permutations.

And here we stand, at the end of a long unhappy season, supporters and club miles apart but as shown yesterday, there are enough who really don't get into minutiae, those for whom it's just a day out rather than a lifelong passion, those who love being the outdoor Belfast Giants. Yesterday, having written on my Ulster Shirt and demonstrated in my own small ineffective way, said goodbye to a lot of friends I left my shirt at the ticket office, I have no more use for it. In two weeks I shall have left the country and I've never felt less like making plans to incorporate a trip to Ravenhill in my plans when doubtless I return occasionally. I'd be more likely to take in a game at Malone or in Armagh with some very good mates.

A guy waiting for a taxi, who saw what I had done actually applauded me when I walked out, I said to him "that is me finished here" and walked on feeling anything but happy. I feel that one of the things that I have held dear for a lifetime has been ripped out of me, I'd hoped to emigrate looking forward to return trips, instead, I just feel it's not for me anymore. It's a bitter taste.

I believe the FIRFU had other options, a commitment to rehabilitation and suitable programmes for young players, a suspension for the embers of the season, a longer Irish suspension of maybe a year or two. That would have been proportionate but the Blazers in D4 wanted to take no risks, just cave in like yes men to the sponsor, not a hint of interest in the two young players.

I really urge people not to support the FIRFU but to hold faith that guys like Rory Best and others with dignity & self-respect will make some people pay a price in the long game and I urge everyone who has always supported Ulster teams, to be wary of Ulster Rugby, but never turn your backs on the Ulster team, they, as are the wider Olding & Jackson families, as well as the two lads, victims of this sorry mess.

I think it's impossible to find any description of the levels of disrespect and loathing I feel for Shane Logan, a hypocrite and well-established liar, out Terry Slogan. This man who likes to portray himself as a Christian is just a loathsome scumbag with a serious lack of backbone.

Some season eh?
Baggy this is your finest piece. I salute you sir. :cheers: >clapping :salut:
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Russ
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Re: The State of the Nation (Ulster)

Post by Russ »

Nigel Owens says Kinspan is a great ground for atmosphere

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Re: The State of the Nation (Ulster)

Post by rumncoke »

I would say he is right

(Other than the millenium most Welsh grounds are 1/2 full same for the Scots .
Thormond lacks the stands at the end so the sound is stereo rather than coming from 4 sides

Leinster is full of GAA blow ins with a half hearted attitude to rugby .

Connaught while passionate lack the numbers to really buzz the ground .

The Italians are into football not rugby )

Given the crowd and the cynical wit of the average Ulsterman you have a recipe for an atmosphere.


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Re: The State of the Nation (Ulster)

Post by ColinM »

Nige luvs the band. Especially when he blows up for a controversial game changing penalty and the band strike up 'Amarillo'
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Re: The State of the Nation (Ulster)

Post by Setanta »

Baggy, that is a brilliant summary of a heartbreaking season. I wish you had posted it on Facebook; best wishes for your future.
From the rolling glens of Antrim through the hills of Donegal we will stand and shout for Ulster as we win both scrum and maul from the lovely lakes of Fermanagh tae the shores of ould Lough Gall we will scream and shout for Ulster as we beat them one and all!
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Re: The State of the Nation (Ulster)

Post by Deraless »

Rum, re the BoI being responsible...buy it.

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Russ
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Re: The State of the Nation (Ulster)

Post by Russ »

ColinM wrote:Nige luvs the band. Especially when he blows up for a controversial game changing penalty and the band strike up 'Amarillo'
3 guffaws
Audible

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BaggyTrousers
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Re: The State of the Nation (Ulster)

Post by BaggyTrousers »

Time to draw a veil over the season, I’m pretty much impervious to the “crunch match”, no fücks given with whether or not Ulster or Ospreys take the final SDC place. My next game is likely to be an away game in France so if it’s the Parker Pen there will be more space in bars to chill out, give not a single fück and get banjoed with friends.

I really can’t be arsed any more with this forgettable decent into Rugby Hades.

In the wise words of Billy Joe Armstrong, wake me up when September ends.
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
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Re: The State of the Nation (Ulster)

Post by Deraless »

Currently we're fairly well stocked at hooker, for most other positions we're on the bones of our arsė and in many cases an injury away from disaster.

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Re: The State of the Nation (Ulster)

Post by Snipe Watson »

Deraless wrote:Currently we're fairly well stocked at hooker, for most other positions we're on the bones of our arsė and in many cases an injury away from disaster.

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We're heading for a position where we'll be well stocked in the back row. We need a couple of young second rows to start showing up. Treaders has been a bit at sea, but he should be better next season Dalton too.
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Re: The State of the Nation (Ulster)

Post by BaggyTrousers »

Some months back I heard rumours of a large second row. I’m assuming that isn’t happening, looking threadbare next season, pretty sure it can be written off right now. So many positions with more or less no cover - Cooney at 9 &10 for example.

It appears we have invested in yutes, big time, may they all flourish like les dents des lions in May. (Sorry it’s my last morning in France before hitting España in a couple of hours. Bizarrely I’ve spent 38 hours in France and am fluent, just one problem I keep saying si & gracias. :duh: )
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
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Re: The State of the Nation (Ulster)

Post by Deraless »

Handling of PJ/SO: disgraceful.
Handling of appointing new coach: hilarious mess.
Handling of replacement 10 issue: Keystone Cops.

I appreciate there is IRFU involvement in all of these but UR is a rudderless ship. No way on this earth do any of the above 3 happen with our friends in Leinster or Munster.

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Re: The State of the Nation (Ulster)

Post by ding dong2u »

None of the above would happen if we had an effective management set-up ..... it has to change and change now !!!!! :red:
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