Rory Best: Our coaches are crap.......well nearly!!!

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BaggyTrousers
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Re: Rory Best: Our coaches are crap.......well nearly!!!

Post by BaggyTrousers »

Dan Dare wrote:But he does join a list of players who have done well since they have left. It is not easy to tell at very young ages, but someone sees potential. Total far fecks to him though, brilliant to see.
The list of players who have done as well as Seymour after leaving a ulster is one of the shortest lists you will ever draw up. Compare it to the list of players who left Ulster and were seldom if ever heard of again and you'll see that frustrating as it is to see one as good as Tommy, they are an absolute rarity.
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Re: Rory Best: Our coaches are crap.......well nearly!!!

Post by mikerob »

Seymour and to a lesser extent Bealham were the out and out failures to identify talent given they went on to be capped elsewhere.

Steenson is another example. They guy is a solid pro rather than an international but Ulster could have done with a solid pro in the days when NOC and iHumph were lining out at 10...

Whitten and McAllister are also solid pros but I don't believe they have reached a substantially higher standard than they did with Ulster. Whitten was capped when he was at Ulster. OK, only against the USA but many pro players don't get near a cap. Jury still out on Farrell.

Then there is a list of former Ulster players who have disappeared without trace in their new clubs...
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Re: Rory Best: Our coaches are crap.......well nearly!!!

Post by Bart S »

I think we sometimes let players go because we don't think they will be 1st choice and also don't seem to have the ability to retain valuabke squad players that say Leinster do. Take someone like Ruddock for example whom they have kept despite the plethora of existing and new backrow players they have.

I would take PJ over Steenson but for the past 3 seasons or so we have had no quality backup to deal with injuries and the large number if games when pj will be away. IH was decent enough to muddle through for a while when he was around his peak but since then....

Our propping stocks have never looked worse then they are now, with Warwick failing to kick on, Black losing his mojo once he stopped competing with Court and Herbst making Deccie Fitz look like Mr Injury free? Add to that the promise shiwn by Kyle McCall last seasn having been shattered and things look grim right now. Of course we live in hope for Kane and McCall to develop as both show potential and i also cling to a forlorn hope that Gibbes can make something of Ah You. :D

All of this makes the Bealham and to some extent McAllister situation look worse, although i can see why Ulster let Paddy Mac go given his injury profile and other potential we had. Hump can't have been that callous with him given the way he went to Glaws in the end.
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Re: Rory Best: Our coaches are crap.......well nearly!!!

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I don't think the debate is Steenson v PJ but wind the clock back 10 years and it would have been Steenson v D Hump in his final playing days and his form falling off a cliff, Adam Larkin and NOC...
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Re: Rory Best: Our coaches are crap.......well nearly!!!

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mikerob wrote:I don't think the debate is Steenson v PJ but wind the clock back 10 years and it would have been Steenson v D Hump in his final playing days and his form falling off a cliff, Adam Larkin and NOC...
We did also let Ian Humph go to Leicester Tigers at a similar time IIRC ?
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Re: Rory Best: Our coaches are crap.......well nearly!!!

Post by Dave »

This thread is a joke. How are the coaches supposed to know if a young player might possess the talent to become a lion? What do you think they are, competent?? FFS.
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Re: Rory Best: Our coaches are crap.......well nearly!!!

Post by mikerob »

UlsterNo9 wrote:
mikerob wrote:I don't think the debate is Steenson v PJ but wind the clock back 10 years and it would have been Steenson v D Hump in his final playing days and his form falling off a cliff, Adam Larkin and NOC...
We did also let Ian Humph go to Leicester Tigers at a similar time IIRC ?
I didn't think iHump was in the Ulster Academy system at all, I'm not sure if there even was an Ulster Academy back then. I thought iHump went to Loughborough Uni which is almost an academy for Leicester anyway.
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Re: Rory Best: Our coaches are crap.......well nearly!!!

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4 factors which effect the retention of players which see to be largely overlooked in this thread are:-

1. How does the player himself see his chances of a regular starting place on the team which appeared to have been a factor on Seymours decision.
2. The over all squad numbers and the salary cap imposed by the Irfu
3. The age profile of the squad ,obviously you want to spread the ages out rather than suddenly finding a hole which has to filled from outside .
4. The players coming through the school's and club's development who are even more difficult to predict as future stars or also rans.
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Re: Rory Best: Our coaches are crap.......well nearly!!!

Post by Aird »

4 factors which effect the retention of players which see to be largely overlooked in this thread are:-

1. How does the player himself see his chances of a regular starting place on the team which appeared to have been a factor on Seymours decision.
2. The over all squad numbers and the salary cap imposed by the Irfu
3. The age profile of the squad ,obviously you want to spread the ages out rather than suddenly finding a hole which has to filled from outside .
4. The players coming through the school's and club's development who are even more difficult to predict as future stars or also rans.
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Re: Rory Best: Our coaches are crap.......well nearly!!!

Post by Russ »

Seymour went to uni in Glasgow and was with some lassie from there too

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Re: Rory Best: Our coaches are crap.......well nearly!!!

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Bart S wrote: All of this makes the Bealham and to some extent McAllister situation look worse, although i can see why Ulster let Paddy Mac go given his injury profile and other potential we had. Hump can't have been that callous with him given the way he went to Glaws in the end.
Humphreys took him after PaddyMac had proved his fitness in France. He sacked him at Ulster because he had no faith in his ability to stay fit at Ulster. No idea if it's true though I've heard it from some who may well know that Humphreys even turned down a pay for play arrangement.

I'd guess it's just a professional decision for both parties, Glaws obviously offered good money & Humphreys knew Paddy is decent ........when fit.
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
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Re: Rory Best: Our coaches are crap.......well nearly!!!

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BaggyTrousers wrote:
Bart S wrote: All of this makes the Bealham and to some extent McAllister situation look worse, although i can see why Ulster let Paddy Mac go given his injury profile and other potential we had. Hump can't have been that callous with him given the way he went to Glaws in the end.
Humphreys took him after PaddyMac had proved his fitness in France. He sacked him at Ulster because he had no faith in his ability to stay fit at Ulster. No idea if it's true though I've heard it from some who may well know that Humphreys even turned down a pay for play arrangement.

I'd guess it's just a professional decision for both parties, Glaws obviously offered good money & Humphreys knew Paddy is decent ........when fit.
Considering the donkeys we signed, even when injured and essentially just offered free rehab, I think the treatment of PMac was poor.
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Re: Rory Best: Our coaches are crap.......well nearly!!!

Post by rumncoke »

Coaches don't create players they make teams .

If players are to improve they must want to improve they have to work to improve .

If the player is unwilling to want to improve no coach on earth can make him a better player .

It's the coaches job to take a bunch of forwards and make them perform as a pack .

Take a group of backs and make them act as a backline .

The task becomes harder when the available personnel change every week and different players have different strengths and weaknesses .

Then add in the opposition changes every week and your team and individual players are analysed after game by the team your going to play .

But take last weekend Leinster's disallowed try proves possibly a number of things .

Firstly Davis reviews his own performance and the games he has refereed to see if he missed something .

Cullen the King of the dark arts has been exposed and Leinster's holding players into a ruck and maul to dilute the defence has been exposed .

They used the same tactic the week before against Connaught and scored .

The pass back in has been used by Leinster for years to punch a hole through the defence Now virtually every ref will be watching for the hold or pull back .

McFaddan might have got away with it if he hadn't been lying on the ground .


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Re: Rory Best: Our coaches are crap.......well nearly!!!

Post by Russ »

rumncoke wrote:Coaches don't create players they make teams .

If players are to improve they must want to improve they have to work to improve .

If the player is unwilling to want to improve no coach on earth can make him a better player .

It's the coaches job to take a bunch of forwards and make them perform as a pack .

Take a group of backs and make them act as a backline .

The task becomes harder when the available personnel change every week and different players have different strengths and weaknesses .

Then add in the opposition changes every week and your team and individual players are analysed after game by the team your going to play .

But take last weekend Leinster's disallowed try proves possibly a number of things .

Firstly Davis reviews his own performance and the games he has refereed to see if he missed something .

Cullen the King of the dark arts has been exposed and Leinster's holding players into a ruck and maul to dilute the defence has been exposed .

They used the same tactic the week before against Connaught and scored .

The pass back in has been used by Leinster for years to punch a hole through the defence Now virtually every ref will be watching for the hold or pull back .

McFaddan might have got away with it if he hadn't been lying on the ground .


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And there in lies the crux

Nige will have watched Leinster and noted this inside pass and hold is their bag

Weaker refs won't

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Re: Rory Best: Our coaches are crap.......well nearly!!!

Post by Hapax Legomenon »

Are Gibbes and Peel our lot as coaches next season?
There can be only one
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