Barking up the wrong tree there Neil. Scholes is very ordinary.Neil F wrote:Regardless of what Stockdale has proven this season, letting Scholes go is still a bad move. Bowe is a busted flush; Trimble is almost certainly waining; Charlie is out the door at the end of next season; and Gilroy's development has gone into reverse at an alarming pace. Stockdale and Lyttle aren't enough options for my liking.
Ulternative Player of the Season
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- Snipe Watson
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Re: Ulternative Player of the Season
- Cap'n Grumpy
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Re: Ulternative Player of the Season
Why do some still drone on about "letting players go"?
If you know that players were "let go" when under contract, fair enough, but when a player is out of contract you cannot stop a player from leaving if he wants to. The only consideration is whether Ulster tried hard enough to keep them and that has to be tempered against what another club or clubs are offering.
Instead we always seem to assume Ulster has a bottomless pit of money and can pay top dollar for every untested Tom Dick and Harry who might, just might, make the grade.
This is not a defence of Ulster, who inevitably get some things wrong and deservedly get slated, but sometimes they seem to be blamed for things which are just not in their control.
If you know that players were "let go" when under contract, fair enough, but when a player is out of contract you cannot stop a player from leaving if he wants to. The only consideration is whether Ulster tried hard enough to keep them and that has to be tempered against what another club or clubs are offering.
Instead we always seem to assume Ulster has a bottomless pit of money and can pay top dollar for every untested Tom Dick and Harry who might, just might, make the grade.
This is not a defence of Ulster, who inevitably get some things wrong and deservedly get slated, but sometimes they seem to be blamed for things which are just not in their control.
I'm not arguing -
I'm just explaining why I'm right
I'm just explaining why I'm right
- Snipe Watson
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Re: Ulternative Player of the Season
Never let the facts get in the way of a bit of finger pointing.Cap'n Grumpy wrote:Why do some still drone on about "letting players go"?
If you know that players were "let go" when under contract, fair enough, but when a player is out of contract you cannot stop a player from leaving if he wants to. The only consideration is whether Ulster tried hard enough to keep them and that has to be tempered against what another club or clubs are offering.
Instead we always seem to assume Ulster has a bottomless pit of money and can pay top dollar for every untested Tom Dick and Harry who might, just might, make the grade.
This is not a defence of Ulster, who inevitably get some things wrong and deservedly get slated, but sometimes they seem to be blamed for things which are just not in their control.
There are very few players who have excelled after "being let go". I don't recall a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth when Seymour left for Scotland.
The only players who left here for another club and were missed were: Tommy who was treated appallingly by D4; P3 and Jimmy Nagusa who were kicked out at the behest of D4 and now Ruan.
There are probably a couple of others we could argue about, but those are the ones who spring to mind.
Re: Ulternative Player of the Season
Has to be Reidy but Louis was going great guns early doors.
Any subsequent difficulties he has allegedly had with telling the time could be attributed to his cracks to the bonce?
Let's hope we have him back in harness come September.
Any subsequent difficulties he has allegedly had with telling the time could be attributed to his cracks to the bonce?
Let's hope we have him back in harness come September.
- Gerald the Mole
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Re: Ulternative Player of the Season
I wonder will Reidy go on tour or was that cap to shut UR up, there you have an international back row so shût the fûck up.....
- Russ
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Re: Ulternative Player of the Season
CynicGerald the Mole wrote:I wonder will Reidy go on tour or was that cap to shut UR up, there you have an international back row so shût the fûck up.....
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Re: Ulternative Player of the Season
I'd say it depends on how one defines "ordinary", though. When someone says "ordinary", I think of Andy Maxwell; Mark McCrea; Paul McKenzie; Jamie Smith... Scholes is definitely a cut above those guys. Looked fairly comfortable and (perhaps more importantly) pretty disciplined in terms of positioning and so on when he got his chances for Ulster. In a season or so, unless new options really push on, Ulster are going to begin looking very, very light in the back three and Leinster seem to have a monopoly on NIQ wings and fullbacks... In that situation, I don't think it would be too bad to have someone like Scholes kicking around. Might never start a test game for the Lions but certainly looked good enough for Ulster's squad, given some of the dross that one can find there, even now!Snipe Watson wrote:Barking up the wrong tree there Neil. Scholes is very ordinary.Neil F wrote:Regardless of what Stockdale has proven this season, letting Scholes go is still a bad move. Bowe is a busted flush; Trimble is almost certainly waining; Charlie is out the door at the end of next season; and Gilroy's development has gone into reverse at an alarming pace. Stockdale and Lyttle aren't enough options for my liking.
Re: Ulternative Player of the Season
Seymour, Whitten, Wilson, Bowe, Steenson, Afoa/BJB, Court, Farrell spring to mind.Snipe Watson wrote:Never let the facts get in the way of a bit of finger pointing.Cap'n Grumpy wrote:Why do some still drone on about "letting players go"?
If you know that players were "let go" when under contract, fair enough, but when a player is out of contract you cannot stop a player from leaving if he wants to. The only consideration is whether Ulster tried hard enough to keep them and that has to be tempered against what another club or clubs are offering.
Instead we always seem to assume Ulster has a bottomless pit of money and can pay top dollar for every untested Tom Dick and Harry who might, just might, make the grade.
This is not a defence of Ulster, who inevitably get some things wrong and deservedly get slated, but sometimes they seem to be blamed for things which are just not in their control.
There are very few players who have excelled after "being let go". I don't recall a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth when Seymour left for Scotland.
The only players who left here for another club and were missed were: Tommy who was treated appallingly by D4; P3 and Jimmy Nagusa who were kicked out at the behest of D4 and now Ruan.
There are probably a couple of others we could argue about, but those are the ones who spring to mind.
Some of them went on to excel in their own right, some just werent adequatley replaced, some just went away and did their jobs proficiently and got more gametime than they would here, but all could have contributed hugely to UR if they'd been kept (and managed correctly)
Theres a host of guys who didnt make it of course, but the lions share went to Championship clubs or low end Pro12 clubs to try and build a career by playing weekly, cant think of any who really surprised us and made it.
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- Warrior Chief
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Re: Ulternative Player of the Season
Reidy was undoubtedly capped so as to remove any need for a short term replacement for our one legged Saffa.
Along with Wilson and Diack, fully international back row.
That said, he's been our most standout player but FFS, he's no world beater.
Along with Wilson and Diack, fully international back row.
That said, he's been our most standout player but FFS, he's no world beater.
NUCIFORA IS A BELLEND
- BaggyTrousers
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Re: Ulternative Player of the Season
Congratulations Grumps in the ongoing struggle against the "letting him go" mob of numpties. I've done my bit previously in this campaign but by their very nature, for Numpties repetition is sadly essential.ColinM wrote:Seymour, Whitten, Wilson, Bowe, Steenson, Afoa/BJB, Court, Farrell spring to mind.Snipe Watson wrote:Never let the facts get in the way of a bit of finger pointing.Cap'n Grumpy wrote:Why do some still drone on about "letting players go"?
If you know that players were "let go" when under contract, fair enough, but when a player is out of contract you cannot stop a player from leaving if he wants to. The only consideration is whether Ulster tried hard enough to keep them and that has to be tempered against what another club or clubs are offering.
Instead we always seem to assume Ulster has a bottomless pit of money and can pay top dollar for every untested Tom Dick and Harry who might, just might, make the grade.
This is not a defence of Ulster, who inevitably get some things wrong and deservedly get slated, but sometimes they seem to be blamed for things which are just not in their control.
There are very few players who have excelled after "being let go". I don't recall a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth when Seymour left for Scotland.
The only players who left here for another club and were missed were: Tommy who was treated appallingly by D4; P3 and Jimmy Nagusa who were kicked out at the behest of D4 and now Ruan.
There are probably a couple of others we could argue about, but those are the ones who spring to mind.
Some of them went on to excel in their own right, some just werent adequatley replaced, some just went away and did their jobs proficiently and got more gametime than they would here, but all could have contributed hugely to UR if they'd been kept (and managed correctly)
Theres a host of guys who didnt make it of course, but the lions share went to Championship clubs or low end Pro12 clubs to try and build a career by playing weekly, cant think of any who really surprised us and made it.
Let's take a quick look at Colin's list (generally non-Numptyish) what have we?
Seymour, has become excellent, I liked him but even I wasn't much fussed when he took the correct decision for his career & moved.
Dizzy, In the time he has been away there is no time barring injury crisis when he would have been first choice. Has done well but still, not a big loss, like Seymour an excellent career move.
Wilson, got to like Roger, really admire that he could play well above his recent level for his last hurrah, sadly his best years were given to Saints. That said, I still think we were really unlucky with the injury he got in his last Saints game, not sure he ever got back properly. Why he left is a different matter to "letting him go".
Tommy, another man who "had to go" for his international career, the D4 ballixes plus almost their entire retinue of tame news hacks wouldn't give Tommy the steam aff their pish until he showed how good he was "abroad". Injury has not been Tommy's friend since his return, not unlike Roger, lad has been through the mill.
Steenson, no question he would have been useful for a period, but not at the time he was "let go" He's decent but he's no Paddy Jackson.
Afoa, Pussywhipped sad ballix and proven liar, gave 18 months maximum & then took the absolute airmiling pish. Now, did someone mention a bad back?
Court, LOOK ........... everyone loved big Tom but he was 33 when he left, we can hardly accuse UR od squandering the player. Another who the FIRFU ensured would move by only offering 1 year. Tom made a good move for his latter years, fair play to him, we got 8/9 good years out of him. In no way does he fit the "let him go" scenario.
Farrell see Dizzy. Who knows if he will become one to regret, after all we are choc-a-bloc with high class centres or so I'm told.
There you go, yet again the "let him go" brigade stands debunked.
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
- BaggyTrousers
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Re: Ulternative Player of the Season
3x2, FFFS nobody accused him of being a wife-beater buy he is a bloody good player.222toHounslow wrote:Reidy was undoubtedly capped so as to remove any need for a short term replacement for our one legged Saffa.
Along with Wilson and Diack, fully international back row.
That said, he's been our most standout player but FFS, he's no world beater.
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
- Snipe Watson
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Re: Ulternative Player of the Season
Aye, what Baggy said.
It's peculiar tendency of this board to overstate the abilities or potential of players who have left Ulster while at the same time slating and accentuating the weaknesses of those who remain. Probably some form of institutionalised self loathing.
Who was that prop who was going to rip up trees and kill dead things in that hotbed of rugby that is Canada? Give me strength.
It's peculiar tendency of this board to overstate the abilities or potential of players who have left Ulster while at the same time slating and accentuating the weaknesses of those who remain. Probably some form of institutionalised self loathing.
Who was that prop who was going to rip up trees and kill dead things in that hotbed of rugby that is Canada? Give me strength.
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Re: Ulternative Player of the Season
So who are the players other clubs fans are saying "Jez why did we let him go to Ulster?"
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Re: Ulternative Player of the Season
Obsessed much? How many times will you bring this up? It wasn't unreasonable to question the release of Chris Taylor at the time. He had an extremely impressive u20 world cup, which is a well used platform to push on for an academy place. I still find it puzzling that he wasn't even offered a sub academy place. At the time, we had no other tightheads in the academy and it was a position of need. The fact that he gave up any desire to play professional rugby and move to Canada is not validation of the decision to release him. It will never be known how he might have developed with an academy place. You cannot assume the outcome based on the fact that he did not persue it elsewhere. It's all history and water under the bridge. I'm happy we now have Rodney.Snipe Watson wrote:Aye, what Baggy said.
It's peculiar tendency of this board to overstate the abilities or potential of players who have left Ulster while at the same time slating and accentuating the weaknesses of those who remain. Probably some form of institutionalised self loathing.
Who was that prop who was going to rip up trees and kill dead things in that hotbed of rugby that is Canada? Give me strength.
I do remember you telling us all that Bealham is shyte.
Ulster are brill of course and do NOT make mistakes.
#seymour
I have my own tv channel, what have you got?
- Snipe Watson
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Re: Ulternative Player of the Season
Is Taylor a pal of yours? His was just a case in point.Dave wrote:Obsessed much? How many times will you bring this up? It wasn't unreasonable to question the release of Chris Taylor at the time. He had an extremely impressive u20 world cup, which is a well used platform to push on for an academy place. I still find it puzzling that he wasn't even offered a sub academy place. At the time, we had no other tightheads in the academy and it was a position of need. The fact that he gave up any desire to play professional rugby and move to Canada is not validation of the decision to release him. It will never be known how he might have developed with an academy place. You cannot assume the outcome based on the fact that he did not persue it elsewhere. It's all history and water under the bridge. I'm happy we now have Rodney.Snipe Watson wrote:Aye, what Baggy said.
It's peculiar tendency of this board to overstate the abilities or potential of players who have left Ulster while at the same time slating and accentuating the weaknesses of those who remain. Probably some form of institutionalised self loathing.
Who was that prop who was going to rip up trees and kill dead things in that hotbed of rugby that is Canada? Give me strength.
I do remember you telling us all that Bealham is shyte.
Ulster are brill of course and do NOT make mistakes.
#seymour
Don't think I've ever brought him up before. Commented on him when other had brought him up. I know nothing about him really, couldn't even remember his name, but what I was referring to was the assertion by some that he would shine in Canada and play for Canada. If he had such a stellar U20 RWC, it's a mystery why someone didn't spot him in the shop window.
On Bealham, I think you'll find that my view on Bealham has been consistent. He's a decent player who we should have kept, but he's no star turn.