The State of the Nation (Ulster)

Talk about the men in white, and everything Ulster!!

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Brian Dunn 382
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Re: The State of the Nation (Ulster)

Post by Brian Dunn 382 »

Baggy, I consider myself a Christian- can’t comment on the decent. I agree with most of your post. I have not renewed my season ticket - still mulling it over. I don’t think any of us would agree with the treatment of the girl - even if it was consensual. However some have told me this is how young people now behave. I have every sympathy for the boys’ families and some sympathy for 2 silly young men. I feel strongly UR and IRFU had a duty of care towards them and they have behaved abominably by throwing money at them and telling them to go away.

I do not think this is the Christian approach and on reading the New Testament, Christ never condemned sinners. His only condemnation was for the religious hypocrites who set standards for other people, did nothing to help them live up to it and condemned them for their failure. Christians should recognise human frailty and mistakes and allow for remorse and forgiveness.

UR missed an opportunity to rehabilitate these 2 young men who have expressed remorse for their actions and could have led an educational campaign to educate young men (and women) throughout sport on how to behave off duty.

My opinions may be regarded as prudish but I was always taught to treat women with respect
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Re: The State of the Nation (Ulster)

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Re: The State of the Nation (Ulster)

Post by big mervyn »

Brian Dunn 382 wrote:Baggy, I consider myself a Christian- can’t comment on the decent. I agree with most of your post. I have not renewed my season ticket - still mulling it over. I don’t think any of us would agree with the treatment of the girl - even if it was consensual. However some have told me this is how young people now behave. I have every sympathy for the boys’ families and some sympathy for 2 silly young men. I feel strongly UR and IRFU had a duty of care towards them and they have behaved abominably by throwing money at them and telling them to go away.

I do not think this is the Christian approach and on reading the New Testament, Christ never condemned sinners. His only condemnation was for the religious hypocrites who set standards for other people, did nothing to help them live up to it and condemned them for their failure. Christians should recognise human frailty and mistakes and allow for remorse and forgiveness.

UR missed an opportunity to rehabilitate these 2 young men who have expressed remorse for their actions and could have led an educational campaign to educate young men (and women) throughout sport on how to behave off duty.

My opinions may be regarded as prudish but I was always taught to treat women with respect
What do we definitely know that PJ did or said that indicates a lack of respect towards women?
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Russ
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Re: The State of the Nation (Ulster)

Post by Russ »

big mervyn wrote:
Brian Dunn 382 wrote:Baggy, I consider myself a Christian- can’t comment on the decent. I agree with most of your post. I have not renewed my season ticket - still mulling it over. I don’t think any of us would agree with the treatment of the girl - even if it was consensual. However some have told me this is how young people now behave. I have every sympathy for the boys’ families and some sympathy for 2 silly young men. I feel strongly UR and IRFU had a duty of care towards them and they have behaved abominably by throwing money at them and telling them to go away.

I do not think this is the Christian approach and on reading the New Testament, Christ never condemned sinners. His only condemnation was for the religious hypocrites who set standards for other people, did nothing to help them live up to it and condemned them for their failure. Christians should recognise human frailty and mistakes and allow for remorse and forgiveness.

UR missed an opportunity to rehabilitate these 2 young men who have expressed remorse for their actions and could have led an educational campaign to educate young men (and women) throughout sport on how to behave off duty.

My opinions may be regarded as prudish but I was always taught to treat women with respect
What do we definitely know that PJ did or said that indicates a lack of respect towards women?
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Brian Dunn 382
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Re: The State of the Nation (Ulster)

Post by Brian Dunn 382 »

Apologies if my facts are incorrect. I thought the court case centred around consent not not on the details of the activity. I did not avidly listen to the details and stand to be corrected. My response was not on the details of what was done but on the attitude of UR and IRFU to Paddy and Stuart.
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Re: The State of the Nation (Ulster)

Post by flatpass »

Russ wrote:
big mervyn wrote:
Brian Dunn 382 wrote:Baggy, I consider myself a Christian- can’t comment on the decent. I agree with most of your post. I have not renewed my season ticket - still mulling it over. I don’t think any of us would agree with the treatment of the girl - even if it was consensual. However some have told me this is how young people now behave. I have every sympathy for the boys’ families and some sympathy for 2 silly young men. I feel strongly UR and IRFU had a duty of care towards them and they have behaved abominably by throwing money at them and telling them to go away.

I do not think this is the Christian approach and on reading the New Testament, Christ never condemned sinners. His only condemnation was for the religious hypocrites who set standards for other people, did nothing to help them live up to it and condemned them for their failure. Christians should recognise human frailty and mistakes and allow for remorse and forgiveness.

UR missed an opportunity to rehabilitate these 2 young men who have expressed remorse for their actions and could have led an educational campaign to educate young men (and women) throughout sport on how to behave off duty.

My opinions may be regarded as prudish but I was always taught to treat women with respect
What do we definitely know that PJ did or said that indicates a lack of respect towards women?
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Good post by Brian. My only hesitation would be with the last sentence - obviously not with the principle of respect as such, but with the implication that respect is lacking in a consensual act. It may be, but it may not be. In a very different moral climate from the one in which I was brought up, I'm just not sure on that one. It's also complicated by the attitude of the woman in question, since it appears she took the initiative both in seeking PJ out and in going upstairs to his bedroom. It becomes even more complicated when you put this in the context of a society where equality is one of the watchwords, which means that respect is a 2-way street. But a good post nonetheless. It sets out the Christian attitude and approach. Now if only there was a Christian in a top position in Ulster Rugby...
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Re: The State of the Nation (Ulster)

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Brian Dunn 382 wrote:Baggy, I consider myself a Christian- can’t comment on the decent. I agree with most of your post. I have not renewed my season ticket - still mulling it over. I don’t think any of us would agree with the treatment of the girl - even if it was consensual. However some have told me this is how young people now behave. I have every sympathy for the boys’ families and some sympathy for 2 silly young men. I feel strongly UR and IRFU had a duty of care towards them and they have behaved abominably by throwing money at them and telling them to go away.

I do not think this is the Christian approach and on reading the New Testament, Christ never condemned sinners. His only condemnation was for the religious hypocrites who set standards for other people, did nothing to help them live up to it and condemned them for their failure. Christians should recognise human frailty and mistakes and allow for remorse and forgiveness.

UR missed an opportunity to rehabilitate these 2 young men who have expressed remorse for their actions and could have led an educational campaign to educate young men (and women) throughout sport on how to behave off duty.

My opinions may be regarded as prudish but I was always taught to treat women with respect
Brian, I'm happy to treat you as a decent one, what you have said there chimes with what I understand to be the Christian way of doing things, I also call it simply treating people decently, I don't think you need to be a Christian to do so.

I don't want to rehash a load about the trial, I think we, unlike others, have moved past that the decision has been made, we will not change it. My efforts now are simply to spread "truth" far and wide in an effort that I hope will eventually lead to Terry's downfall. I could wax all Churchillian and say it will be long, it will be hard and there will be no withdrawal, but that sounds far too much like a Murray/Zebo sex tape for my liking.

Seeing Terry off will not be an easy task, it will take people to remember that smug horribly self-satisfied look on his fizzer when he gloried in his claimed part in dismissing the two young gentlemen and a determination to publicly undermine him. I've got nothing but time and a long memory.

People need to remember that his interview, like his 2009 CV, contained a limited amount of truth. The fact is that the FIRFU weighed up €12million of sponsorship against 2 players. The fact that they were Nordies, I believe, but cannot prove, made their decision to cave in to Bank of Ireland a no-brainer. In all reality, if you are happy to consider money as trumping morality, then there genuinely was no other decision. I doubt the decision took more than a quick nod around the table.

What sickens me to my core is that they then presume to describe their decision as something it is not, it's not moral, it's not for the benefit of downtrodden women and has nothing to do with how young players should behave, in the wise words of Jessie J - it's all about the money. Anything else is just Terry Slogan telling lies.

I share your sentiments Brian about " I was always taught to treat women with respect", so was I and I very much do however as a wise Ulster supporting lady, Ruthie Kohner said somewhere, "instead of just blaming men, teach your own daughters to have a bit of respect for themselves". I will not go into things regarding the young lady, other than to say, she was not invited to Paddy's house, he had no idea who she was, she was also no stranger to the act of crying rape, nobody was convicted that time either, indeed like this time the evidence was not remotely enough to take it to court, indeed I believe the police dismissed it out of hand.... but with one appalling difference, despite the prosecution service here not wanted to proceed .......well we all know what happened.

I know people who know the two young gentlemen, I don't myself, none describe them as saints, indeed Paddy is a messer, but neither he nor Stuart are the despicable scumbags they have been presented to be and are held to be by the #Ibelieveher tendency, including many charlatans who describe themselves as journalists.

Anyway Brian, to conclude, unlike Terry and the avaricious FIRFU, I claim to be far from perfect but to be fairly moral, my morals will not allow me to watch a snake-oil salesman like Terry ruin the Ulster team I have loved for decades.

To the barricades, brothers & sisters, off with his head. :cheers:
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
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The State of the Nation (Ulster)

Post by rumncoke »

Other than the take on the DPPS the decision to take it Court was the DPPS but charges weren’t formalised until a prosecutor could be found as the files did the rounds .
I wonder to what extent the Dublin Law Circle have sway in the courts of D4 ?

Because the Law is a tighter Brotherhood than anything in Masonry .

But to their credit they didn’t jail the innocent but they definitely struck a gold seam .

Nine weeks on a case that could have been decided based on two witnesses .The claimant and Dara provided the QC s had been prepared and allowed to question the claimant aggressively .The reported questioning of her read like a vicars tea party .

The thing that puzzles if it was just the Whatapp messages that gave the guys the dump — then how come CG gets a week — the only conclusion to be drawn is that it was the rape [s]that never was .

So being innocent counted for nothing .


Slugger o Toole is quite revealing in even before the verdict 5 woman’s groups in Belfast met to decide what and how to react , and to make 5 demands .

Well the demands got lost in the witch hunt and it is noticeable the silence since the innocent were punished by Judges of D4 in the Court of Feminist Misandry .





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Last edited by rumncoke on Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The State of the Nation (Ulster)

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Here they talked of revolution,
Here it was they lit the flame,
Here they sang about tomorrow and tomorrow never came.

Empty chairs and empty tables...

Not on my feckin watch. Tomorrow and every day after it, we must remember SLogan’s barely contained smile as he spouted his lies to camera. He enjoyed every second of it. It was what he wanted and his handlers at D4 gave him what he wanted.
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Re: The State of the Nation (Ulster)

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Unless the poles were consider weapons the have no right to prohibit freedom of expression

Of course if you close eyes and shut your ears then you are able to claim everybody loves me .

If Logan thinks he is the man to take Ulster forward to total ignominy he might be right because so far he has succeeded beyond all expectation





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Re: The State of the Nation (Ulster)

Post by Deraless »

It was certainly discussed in the Dublin courts but at what level I have no idea.

I have heard someone recently say an interesting thing regarding some peoples' attitudes to sex. In our day it was seen as a destination, something that you aimed for at some stage down the line in a relationship. Nowadays most people see it as a starting point.



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Re: The State of the Nation (Ulster)

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Tender wrote:Here they talked of revolution,
Here it was they lit the flame,
Here they sang about tomorrow and tomorrow never came.

Empty chairs and empty tables...
Quality Tender. :thumleft: A favourite of mine is from German former antisemite, MARTIN NIEMÖLLER who said, not long after WWII :

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.


It stirs emotion in me, and I like to think that I have from time to time spoken out and I don't mean here.

Then in 1946 he wrote:

"Thus, whenever I chance to meet a Jew known to me before, then, as a Christian, I cannot but tell him: 'Dear Friend, I stand in front of you, but we can not get together, for there is guilt between us. I have sinned and my people has sinned against thy people and against thyself.'"


There is what I would think is something more bridgeable than he allowed, presumably from his guilt and regret, but he showed a level of self-knowledge and genuine Christianity, as most of us would see it, than our Terry could ever imagine, should he outlive Methuselah.
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
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Re: The State of the Nation (Ulster)

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I’ve watched your posts for a number of seasons -I normally can’t be arsed to post anything - but this post is just gold dust. The whole thing stinks.
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Re: The State of the Nation (Ulster)

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Will we in future days release our own version of the Stuttgart Declaration?
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Re: The State of the Nation (Ulster)

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RugbyRegent wrote:I’ve watched your posts for a number of seasons -I normally can’t be arsed to post anything - but this post is just gold dust. The whole thing stinks.
Frig sake Baggy. Your fan club has emerged from the shadows and yer feckin off to Espana! :lol:

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