CAN THE MUNSTER MEN SING?

[BIGBADDON]

I'be been watching the world cup and it has been great to see the teams singing their anthems so passionately. Then we come to Ireland so so disappointed to see that the Munster contingent don't appear to know the words maybe DK could have a bit of choir practice before the Aussie game. Tommy could give them a lesson or two maybe.

[BaggyTrousers]

I'be been watching the world cup and it has been great to see the teams singing their anthems so passionately. Then we come to Ireland so so disappointed to see that the Munster contingent don't appear to know the words maybe DK could have a bit of choir practice before the Aussie game. Tommy could give them a lesson or two maybe.

Hey BigBad, I've noticed the Munstermen have different attitudes to singing:

Jerry Flannery just doesn't to it at all, neither one of the tunes.
Donners sings his wee heart out
ROG sings the Irish NA with gusto but never opens his bake for Ireland's Call
POC mutters along with both usually
Bull Hayes used to sing both through his mouth-guard & always looked so emotional he was close to tears.

No such problem for our Spanish brothers as "La Marcha Real" has no lyrics. They had a competition in 2008 or thereabouts and a winner was declared but a few days latter the whole deal was abandoned when howls of protest against the nationalistic lyrics came from all corners of that marvellous country. Of course it has very old divides with regional allegiances & a multiplicity of languages, so you'll never see a Spaniard sing their national anthem - sounds good to me.

Most are a pile of jingoistic crud including our own official National Anthem. Pretty bizarre that it continues to be a UK anthem give its lyrics:

Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring
May he sedition hush
And like a torrent rush
Rebellious Scots to crush
God save the King

[BR]

Pretty bizarre that it continues to be a UK anthem give its lyrics:

Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring
May he sedition hush
And like a torrent rush
Rebellious Scots to crush
God save the King

I've heard this argument many times -

2 points:

Firstly - I've never seen a problem with that verse in the context of the song and the time. Maybe you could expand on what bothers you about it.

Secondly - there are/were many verses written/created for 'God Save the King', some of which were published. This was one of them which was popular at the time, but IIRC was never included in the version which later became 'The National Anthem' and certainly is not included in the current approved version.

[Tenyarder]

Somebody told me that Ireland actually walked out with both the Tricolour and the Ulster (provincial) Flag and the broadcasters showed both the Ulster (with Crown) and the Tricolour as the flags of Ireland. On checking UTV Player this is correct!

http://www.u.tv/utvplayer/video/139156

at 2.25 - 2.40.

Not sure if this is a new IRFU thing or the hosts trying to be politically correct.

[ColinM]

Flegs. Happy days.

If they'd come out with 4 provincial flegs would Tommy & Geordan be offended?

[OneMore]

Flegs. Happy days.

If they'd come out with 4 provincial flegs would Tommy & Geordan be offended?

By this same reasoning they'd be annoyed that they weren't represented currently (by the tricolour and the Ulster flag) then. Silly point.

In terms of the anthems, I have noticed some of our southern compatriots not singing Ireland's Call. Fair play, let them do what they like. I think the issue of anthems is almost 100% about appeasing fans and dignitaries than players. I would say that almost all of the Ulster players, for instance, would sing the soldier song if they actually knew the words, I very much doubt they are politically passionate as some of the fans.

[BaggyTrousers]

Flegs. Happy days.

If they'd come out with 4 provincial flegs would Tommy & Geordan be offended?

By this same reasoning they'd be annoyed that they weren't represented currently (by the tricolour and the Ulster flag) then. Silly point.

In terms of the anthems, I have noticed some of our southern compatriots not singing Ireland's Call. Fair play, let them do what they like. I think the issue of anthems is almost 100% about appeasing fans and dignitaries than players. I would say that almost all of the Ulster players, for instance, would sing the soldier song if they actually knew the words, I very much doubt they are politically passionate as some of the fans.

I trust you wouldn't be including Davy Tweed in that

Firstly - I've never seen a problem with that verse in the context of the song and the time. Maybe you could expand on what bothers you about it.

Secondly - there are/were many verses written/created for 'God Save the King', some of which were published. This was one of them which was popular at the time, but IIRC was never included in the version which later became 'The National Anthem' and certainly is not included in the current approersved version.

Taking both 1st & 2nd points together, at that time it was clearly very much an English anthem & I am bloody glad that verse doesn't form part of the current official anthem. Point is why would the Scots be happy to have such an anthem just because a verse offensive to them is taken out. They aren't at all happy & like the Welsh boo GSTQ/K at every opportunity. It is only the English & a proportion the the population of Norn Iron who feel it to be their, anthem.

Furthermore I would wager every penny I own that less than 20% of the UK population know more than 1 verse of it, a pretty sorry reflection on its value/meaning to Betty's apparently loyal subjects.

I, on the other hand, abominate national anthems other than for their musical content, the French & Italians for example have 2 right wee toe tappers & the German one has a majestic feel to it. NZ & OZ are moderately jaunty & the SA anthem has done a good job of cobbling together the several languages at play there and is tolerably pleasing to the ear. The Argies look scary when trotting out their pacy little operatic number and of course the US of A has a certain agreeable cadence to it.

The same could not be said about the dirge that is the UK NA which I assume was penned by someone suffering a very deep depression. In truth only an Englishman could bellow it out and feel proud, I'm seeing a mental image of that ugly barsteward Steve Thompson as I type and even he looked angry to be singing/bellowing it. As someone who you might consider "on the right side of the house" to value it, it has no meaning for me whatsoever.

[mikerob]

In terms of the anthems, I have noticed some of our southern compatriots not singing Ireland's Call.

Rory Best doesn't sing Ireland's Call either. I don't know why but my guess is either that he has a singing voice like a strangled cat, or more likely, singing an anthem just isn't part of his routine to prepare mentally for the game.

[BR]

Taking both 1st & 2nd points together, at that time it was clearly very much an English anthem & I am bloody glad that verse doesn't form part of the current official anthem. Point is why would the Scots be happy to have such an anthem just because a verse offensive to them is taken out. They aren't at all happy & like the Welsh boo GSTQ/K at every opportunity. It is only the English & a proportion the the population of Norn Iron who feel it to be their, anthem.

You fall into the trap like so many before you, of only reading some of the words. The request is for assistance for Wade to crush rebellious scots (ie the revolting jacobites) - hardly surprising for a song sung in support of the monarch at a time of sedition. We can only assume that the music-hall patrons wished no ill-will on those loyal scots (many of whom made up Wade's own militia). I would also suggest that the verse wasn't 'taken out'. It seems to have been one of many verses, probably written by an array of people, which was used at that time, and not part of the version officailly recognised some years later. That may have been a reflection of Wade's failure to recreate past glories and failure to crush the aforementioned scots, or it may have been the irrelevance of a reference to a by-then historic event, or it may never have even been considered.

Furthermore I would wager every penny I own that less than 20% of the UK population know more than 1 verse of it,

I would suggest less than 10% and many of those would actually get the words wrong - as witnessed at countless sporting events over the years.

[Snipe Watson]

I would say that almost all of the Ulster players, for instance, would sing the soldier song if they actually knew the words.

Doubt that very much.

[OneMore]

I would say that almost all of the Ulster players, for instance, would sing the soldier song if they actually knew the words.

Doubt that very much.

Really? None of them seem to be that much swayed towards unionism.

Court - probably doesn't care one way or the other.
Trimble - seems fairly proud of his irishness, I'd guess he'd sing it.
Wallace, Fez, Best - I have little hunch either way, I don't imagine any of them object on political grounds.

Is guess as well educated ulstermen they wouldn't struggle with it on principle, even though, clearly, in practice they'd have a bit of work to do!

This could well be complete rubbish though, just my feelings on the matter.

[Snipe Watson]

I would say that almost all of the Ulster players, for instance, would sing the soldier song if they actually knew the words.

Doubt that very much.

Really? None of them seem to be that much swayed towards unionism.

How can you make that statement? Do you know them all? Have you had that conversation with them?

[OneMore]

I would say that almost all of the Ulster players, for instance, would sing the soldier song if they actually knew the words.

Doubt that very much.

Really? None of them seem to be that much swayed towards unionism.

How can you make that statement? Do you know them all? Have you had that conversation with them?

No, it's the impression I get.

Likewise, why do you doubt it, have YOU had that conversation with them?

[Rooster]

I would say that almost all of the Ulster players, for instance, would sing the soldier song if they actually knew the words.

OneMore, you have got that wrong, I doubt some of them would be happy singing it, and I do know some of them well enough to ask although never have done, I value my life

[ColinM]

Flegs. Happy days.

If they'd come out with 4 provincial flegs would Tommy & Geordan be offended?

By this same reasoning they'd be annoyed that they weren't represented currently (by the tricolour and the Ulster flag) then. Silly point.

Then by your reasoning the whole squad would be offended by the Tricolour and NI flag (not Ulster flag)

Of course its a silly point, every bl00dy fleg and anthem debate is full of nothing but silly points, in fact the overriding silly point which you cant see, is that you can make up an excuse for someone to be alienated or offended by any possible combination of flegs and anthems.

If you read the first 3 words of my first post you might not have switched your irony filter off