English Heineken teams

[BaggyTrousers]

Clermont are weak, their time has come and gone.

I wouldn't say weak but they certainly are not the force they were. They blew it last year and does not look like they will get a chance to put that right.


Exeter must the only team in England not yet worried about a relegation battle. Shame on them. After 5 games in the season they need to be planning for that battle.

Yes to all that, I quite like Clermont, primarily for the number & class of their fans who came to Ravenhill a couple of years back. Was very disappointed they gifted Toulon the trophy last year & yes, they do look like they are slightly over that hill, bit like a couple of Irish teams I could mention, but of course manners dictates I won't.

Back on our English friends , Exeter are a decent wee team but won't jockey, Quins huff & puff but they aren't good enough, Glows are an adequate demonstration that England can't provide 6 decent teams, Tigers are.... made of paper & don't like it up them despite their long tradition & record, Saracens are fat frauds who will potentially do OK but only because they have a 2 to qualify group but 7th or 8th seeds their lot, I'd love to see them at Ravenhill and finally Saints are also a nearly club, good on their day but not winners by a long way.

Look to France & Ulster for this years winner. Toulouse will be 1st seeds.

[ladyboy696969]

Clermont are weak, their time has come and gone.

I wouldn't say weak but they certainly are not the force they were. They blew it last year and does not look like they will get a chance to put that right.


Exeter must the only team in England not yet worried about a relegation battle. Shame on them. After 5 games in the season they need to be planning for that battle.

Yes to all that, I quite like Clermont, primarily for the number & class of their fans who came to Ravenhill a couple of years back. Was very disappointed they gifted Toulon the trophy last year & yes, they do look like they are slightly over that hill, bit like a couple of Irish teams I could mention, but of course manners dictates I won't.

Back on our English friends , Exeter are a decent wee team but won't jockey, Quins huff & puff but they aren't good enough, Glows are an adequate demonstration that England can't provide 6 decent teams, Tigers are.... made of paper & don't like it up them despite their long tradition & record, Saracens are fat frauds who will potentially do OK but only because they have a 2 to qualify group but 7th or 8th seeds their lot, I'd love to see them at Ravenhill and finally Saints are also a nearly club, good on their day but not winners by a long way.

Look to France & Ulster for this years winner. Toulouse will be 1st seeds.

Gwan outta that BT. Show us yer medals!

[Shan]

they do look like they are slightly over that hill, bit like a couple of Irish teams I could mention, but of course manners dictates I won't.

No problem mentioning Leinster and Connacht around here Baggy.

[Snipe Watson]

they do look like they are slightly over that hill, bit like a couple of Irish teams I could mention, but of course manners dictates I won't.

No problem mentioning Leinster and Connacht around here Baggy.

No idea what you're talking about Shan. The west is on the rise.......must be the full moon disturbing your thought patterns............ #lookagain

[BuckRogers]

I like Exeter as a team, set up quite similar to the province's in that the Exeter side does seem to represent that whole area rather than just the city. Their link to Ulster with Whitten and Steenson also helps. They are a well run, self-sufficient club who IMO will go on to bigger and better things and push into the top-four of the Premiership, most likely at Harlequins expense who have not managed to replace the loss of James Johnston in their front row.

[scrum5]

Imagine how good Exeter would be if they had got an equal share of the AP money, it's bad when the top English teams try and keep the Celts down but when they're keeping their own down.....

[Rooster]

Imagine how good Exeter would be if they had got an equal share of the AP money, it's bad when the top English teams try and keep the Celts down but when they're keeping their own down.....

Aye they talk of a relegation battle each year but in reality a side going down gets far more cash than one coming up so usually come straight up again at the expense of whoever got up to knock them down, Exeter bucked that trend though I doubt any other side could actually achieve it.

[tigerburnie]

Imagine how good Exeter would be if they had got an equal share of the AP money, it's bad when the top English teams try and keep the Celts down but when they're keeping their own down.....

The AP teams actually own shares in the Premiership, when Exeter came up, Leeds went down, the rules say that if the relegated team doesn't come back up, they sell their shares to the promoted team, so Exeter were then able to buy the shares. Leeds actually had Bristols shares if I remember rightly. The money income from tv etc, is then shared equally between the share holders. Same applies to the money that comes from the rfu for internationals. Clubs get an equal share, even if they have no international in the EPS. So at present Exeter get exactly the same amount of money as Tigers. Money generated by the clubs own endeavour is then added on top, like sponsership and gate money, hence Tigers are richer due to bigger gates and bigger sponsership deals etc.

[mikerob]

So at present Exeter get exactly the same amount of money as Tigers.

Not correct TB. In addition to "P" shares that Exeter have bought from Leeds, funding also depends on "A" shares and a team doesn't get the full allocation of "A" shares until they have been in the premiership for 6 successive seasons.

Exeter therefore get less money than Leicester.

Welcome to the world of the English Premiership clubs, where all teams are equal but some teams are less equal than others.... Wonder why we celts are suspicious?

[tigerburnie]

Do you seriously think we swallow the "All animals are equal" BS? Honestly, TB, the PRL is run for the benefit of the select few "established" clubs. That's why the "P" shares were issued. For all your "BS" about relegation you ignore that the "P" shares limit a promoted team like London Welsh and provide a parachute payment/bungee rope for a relegated team like Saints of Quins.

Seriously chum, before you come on saying Exeter get as much as Tigers, you should have a look. They only get as much as Tigers because they shelled out £5 million to buy Leeds shares. Did Tigers have to do that to get their shares? No, didn't think so. As part of the PRL cartel, Tigers got theirs for free.

Edit. Quick google would have shown you the truth.

http://www.iscaventures.co.uk/news/tran ... by-shares/

I'm aware of what's available, now where does it say that other teams got their shares for free, or are you trying to spin a web here lastknight?

[mikerob]

Do you seriously think we swallow the "All animals are equal" BS? Honestly, TB, the PRL is run for the benefit of the select few "established" clubs. That's why the "P" shares were issued. For all your "BS" about relegation you ignore that the "P" shares limit a promoted team like London Welsh and provide a parachute payment/bungee rope for a relegated team like Saints of Quins.

Seriously chum, before you come on saying Exeter get as much as Tigers, you should have a look. They only get as much as Tigers because they shelled out £5 million to buy Leeds shares. Did Tigers have to do that to get their shares? No, didn't think so. As part of the PRL cartel, Tigers got theirs for free.

Edit. Quick google would have shown you the truth.

http://www.iscaventures.co.uk/news/tran ... by-shares/

I'm aware of what's available, now where does it say that other teams got their shares for free, or are you trying to spin a web here lastknight?

Actually TB, LastKnight is not correct. Leicester didn't get their "P" shares for free. If you check Premier Rugby Limited accounts at Companies House, Leicester paid the grand total of £80 for their "P" shares

My point about the "A" shares is definitely correct. Exeter have less "A" shares than Leicester so receive less money from the Aviva Premiership.

As I said, in a PRL run competition, some are more equal than others... and it is set-up to disadvantage newly promoted teams.

[mikerob]

I stand corrected TB, the 13 "established top flight clubs" paid what can only be regarded as a nominal fee for their "P" shares.

The same rugby paper that you are fond of quoting deals with what is called the "PRL Cartel".

Meritocracy in action, a chara.

They paid the face value of £1 per share.

But like any share, once it has been issued, the face value doesn't matter and it is worth what someone pays for it. In this case, PRL are telling them it is worth £5M...

[BaggyTrousers]

Frankly for all the jabber about "Liberté, égalité, fraternité" the workings of the PRL are even more transparent than Mike's excellent line in info.

All you need do is look at the hoops that potentially promoted clubs have to jump through before they are accepted as promoted. There are of course some reasonable requirements such as the ground of these clubs, but be that as it may it is impossible to escape the conclusion that all is set up for the preservation of the status quo.

Mind you it strikes me as odd that there is even any concept of equality and reasonably comparable distribution of funds between the clubs, seems PRL regards itself as a surrogate "Union".

[pwrmoore]

seems PRL regards itself as a surrogate "Union".

Think you've hit the nail on the head Baggy. The PRL thinks the club came should be the pinnacle of Rugby and that they should be in charge of it. Therein lies the root of all the problems between the PRL the eRFU and the ERC, and its the reason we are all suffering this crap about the future of the HEC. If they get their way on the HEC the next thing will be to strangle the International game as an obstacle to the "success" of the clubs.

[bootlaced]

Yeah it is a bit like scrapping the NHS and bringing private health care providers to look after the patients, whoops customers who use the service. sod the patients whoops customers, sod the hospitals whoops clubs.Sounds very familiar