All Blacks vs Ireland

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darkside lightside
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Re: All Blacks vs Ireland

Post by darkside lightside »

A much better performance, with the anchor being our defence - so far improved on last week that I can only imagine Kiss was told to forget about attack, and pull his finger out on getting our defensive patterns sorted out! We put them under a lot of pressure, and guess what, like every team if you defend hard and well against them, they feel it and make mistakes.

In attack we were better than last week, but still struggle for coherency - simply put, for the last few years we have not had a functioning attacking gameplan, and last Saturday was no different. However at least we reduced the handling errors, and once or twice had someone hit the line. In fairness, away to a strong side, even one not playing especially well, at test level away victories are often of the narrow, back-to-the-wall type - rather than the expansive, dominant type. One wonders though just how good this side could have been over the last couple of years had their potential been brought out.

I thought the entire pack were excellent, Heaslip notably stepped things up this match. The backs were adequate rather than outstanding. I see Murray being lauded - I wonder how much of that is down to the try? It was certainly one of his better performances, but he remains sluggish to the point of slow-motion, and I found myself frequently shouting at the screen..

On the NZ pen - I thought it was a certain pen to Ireland... However I read a thing over the weekend by Brian Moore, where he said that in his view, it's extremely rare and unusual for the scrum to whip if it isn't due to the non-put in side. So who knows - the bottom line for me was their scrum was under severe pressure and going backwards, and I thought it was a kick in the teeth to have that decision essentially give them 'match-point' at the death..

What will be interesting now is the next test - any complacency will be gone, so it will be interesting to see whether our defence can hold up to the same extent, and more importantly if we can finally create some sustained pressure ourselves.
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Bart S
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Re: All Blacks vs Ireland

Post by Bart S »

darkside lightside wrote:A much better performance, with the anchor being our defence - so far improved on last week that I can only imagine Kiss was told to forget about attack, and pull his finger out on getting our defensive patterns sorted out! We put them under a lot of pressure, and guess what, like every team if you defend hard and well against them, they feel it and make mistakes.

In attack we were better than last week, but still struggle for coherency - simply put, for the last few years we have not had a functioning attacking gameplan, and last Saturday was no different. However at least we reduced the handling errors, and once or twice had someone hit the line. In fairness, away to a strong side, even one not playing especially well, at test level away victories are often of the narrow, back-to-the-wall type - rather than the expansive, dominant type. One wonders though just how good this side could have been over the last couple of years had their potential been brought out.

I thought the entire pack were excellent, Heaslip notably stepped things up this match. The backs were adequate rather than outstanding. I see Murray being lauded - I wonder how much of that is down to the try? It was certainly one of his better performances, but he remains sluggish to the point of slow-motion, and I found myself frequently shouting at the screen..

On the NZ pen - I thought it was a certain pen to Ireland... However I read a thing over the weekend by Brian Moore, where he said that in his view, it's extremely rare and unusual for the scrum to whip if it isn't due to the non-put in side. So who knows - the bottom line for me was their scrum was under severe pressure and going backwards, and I thought it was a kick in the teeth to have that decision essentially give them 'match-point' at the death..

What will be interesting now is the next test - any complacency will be gone, so it will be interesting to see whether our defence can hold up to the same extent, and more importantly if we can finally create some sustained pressure ourselves.
Wouldn't argue with any of that D/L :salut:
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Re: All Blacks vs Ireland

Post by Bart S »

Meg The Lab wrote:
Shan wrote:Trouble making Ireland supporters or just the usual moaning Kiwis overreacting?

I'll go for the second option as the generalisation and hypocrisy is just a bit too much.....plus they won't like the fact we nearly beat them....just imagine what they'd be saying if we had won.....
Christchurch police are "disappointed" with the drunk and disorderly behaviour of some fans during last night's All Black test match.

Senior Sergeant Scott Banfield, head of Christchurch's team policing unit, said five people were arrested and 16 people were evicted from the new AMI Stadium for alcohol-related disorder.

Police also attended a number of alcohol-related incidents in the stands during the match, including assaults and offensive language.

"It was silly little things, like some people sitting in the wrong seat, that sparked a fight. Maybe if people weren't intoxicated they would have dealt with it a bit more maturely.

About 28 people were turned away from the stadium before the game even began because they were "already heavily intoxicated", Banfield said.

"You're paying good money to see the game ... and they never even got into the game."

Most of the troublemakers were Irish supporters who "demonstrated they can't handle alcohol", he said.

"We've got our own drinking culture in New Zealand which we're trying to sort out and if that's a representation of what they do in their own country they've got big problems over there.

"I think they just have to understand .. if they're in Rome do as the Romans do. We don't drink to a point where we fall over so much in our country."

One of the arrested people included a naked woman who ran onto the field during half-time.

Some of the arrested people would receive pre-charge warnings, but the streaker was likely to be sent to the Christchurch District Court for disorderly behaviour, Banfield said.

Several people told stadium staff they had had enough of the offensive language and bad behaviour around them and left before the game had finished.

"There was pretty poor behaviour out there. It's pretty sad when people say 'look we're out of here .. we've got kids and things and the language around here is terrible'."

"It was disappointing. Overall [it was] a fantastic game, a real test, but to have people's alcohol levels so high, it took a real shine off the game."
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/7 ... rugby-fans
First apologies for the thread I started asking why PW was sent to New Zealand. I now realise it could have been posted here, but there you go.

Concerning the drunken behaviour referred to here. IMO it probably was Leinster supporters. Managed to witness some of their antics at Twickenham similar to what was seen at the game on Saturday. We even had one guy tell us "you're just like Rangers supporters, a shower of orange barstewards"
On a personal note, he was wrong on three points. I don't support Rangers, I'm not in the Orange Order and I have two parents, so how he was able to make those judgements is beyond me.
Meg - not sure if you read some of the stuff on here about the Heiny SF at the Aviva and the journey back home afterwards, but there were a fair number of reports of drunken antics involving "Ulster" fans. Could have been "supporters" of any of the provinces or even just Irish people living there with little real interest in rugby.
bazzaj

Re: All Blacks vs Ireland

Post by bazzaj »

I found that Heaslips in recent years is almost an exact barometer of how well the Irish team are doing.
In other word if he plays well so does the team and vise-versa.
After our 6 nations performances when he went missing for most of it I was calling for SOB to be moved to 8.
Having seen his 2nd test performance I really hope he can introduce consistancy to his game at this level as there are fewer better number 8s on their day.
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Mac
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Re: All Blacks vs Ireland

Post by Mac »

Spotted this by Les Kiss in the Tele this morning. Certainly an interesting
slant on things and when looked at more closely it would appear to have
a little merit to it also. Obviously bringing it up now could cast it into the
sour grapes department but then again is now not the perfect time when
it should be looked at and possibly clarified one way or the other. Just
wondering is it as cut and dried as he states?
Pros V's Cons??
Ireland assistant coach Les Kiss feels there should be a rule change concerning missed drop goals following his side's 22-19 defeat to New Zealand in the second Test.
Kiss, who has responsibility for the Irish backs division, was unhappy that New Zealand fly-half Dan Carter was gifted a second chance to land the winning drop goal. Referee Nigel Owens awarded a five-metre scrum to the All Blacks after Carter's first attempt at a game-clincher was deflected wide then touched down, behind the posts, by Eoin Reddan.

"If you go for a drop goal and miss then why should you get the ball back from a missed kick?" asked Kiss.
"That shouldn't have been their advantage. They went through it and missed it as we were good enough to stop it.
It is like a tackle. If we tackled him there, trying to attempt a field goal, but we tackled him before it, we would get the ball back. But that doesn't happen. That's probably a law (the International Rugby Board) could look at."

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport ... 74743.html
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bazzaj

Re: All Blacks vs Ireland

Post by bazzaj »

Its a fair point Kiss makes but there are other rules that are similarly unfair.
When a kick is touched in flight it plays the players in front on side.
Therefore a poor kick is rewarded and good pressure is penalised.

Case in point was in Glasgows home game against Bath in this seasons HEC.
Weir had a last ditch drop goal which landed well short, touched in flight and Gray who was at least 15metres in front of the kicker was legitimately allowed to pick up the ball and dive over the line to win the game.
The same rule could work out if you had a player behind the kicker from the oppo when the ball is charged down and lands forwards but is not as likely to happen.

Best way round it is maybe to treat a charge down as if it did not happen in terms of a drop at goal.
So therefore instead of a 5 metre scrum its a 22 drop out in the case of the one last Saturday and Richie Gray would be deemed to be off side in the afore mentioned Glasgow game.
Dont know if this can apply to normal charge downs as it probably opens up a new world of grey areas which every one is keen to avoid.
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cables
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Re: All Blacks vs Ireland

Post by cables »

Kiss, who has responsibility for the Irish backs division, was unhappy that New Zealand fly-half Dan Carter was gifted a second chance to land the winning drop goal. Referee Nigel Owens awarded a five-metre scrum to the All Blacks after Carter's first attempt at a game-clincher was deflected wide then touched down, behind the posts, by Eoin Reddan.
By my recall the writer has the facts wrong. He/she is not the only writer to also get the facts wrong IMO.

Reddan did not touch the ball down in-goal. He ran the ball out over the deal ball line while under pressure from 2 AB's IIRC.

Anyone here see it differently?
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