Premeditated Subs?????

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bazzaj

Re: Premeditated Subs?????

Post by bazzaj »

Just off the top of my head Kofi I think from memory law 9.20.1 states that Clubs may tog out up to five additional players, who may act as substitutes or replacements, subject to Law 3 of the Laws of the Game. A team should have five players who can play in front row positions, two of whom can play hooker and three of whom can play prop. For semi-finals and finals the number of additional players may be up to seven.
Or something like that from memory but I might be wrong.
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Kofi Annan
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Re: Premeditated Subs?????

Post by Kofi Annan »

Yep your wrong, read my question again and answer it correctly, you have proved you can google, copy and print, i applaud you or your carer for the assistance.
“For the liespotter who knows how to listen well, the random words, sounds, and phrases in a person's speech are never as random as they seem. They offer a clear sightline into the liar's psyche.”
bazzaj

Re: Premeditated Subs?????

Post by bazzaj »

No flies on you Kofi!
They are rolling subs, unlimited so my bro tells me any way.
Am I right?
Do I get a prize?
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Kofi Annan
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Re: Premeditated Subs?????

Post by Kofi Annan »

bazzaj wrote:No flies on you Kofi!
They are rolling subs, unlimited so my bro tells me any way.
Am I right?
Do I get a prize?
Nope , nearly there, but not unlimited, that would just be foolish, better to say nothing and look the fool than open yer mouth and confirm it.
“For the liespotter who knows how to listen well, the random words, sounds, and phrases in a person's speech are never as random as they seem. They offer a clear sightline into the liar's psyche.”
bazzaj

Re: Premeditated Subs?????

Post by bazzaj »

But you asked me the question in the first place you haughty get!
To me honest I dont think I only seen a handful of AIL games since I played in one and I played in games where you were allowed no subs regardless of injury.
My brother does manage a top level AIL team so I should know better you are right so I do feel a little foolish for not knowing!.
The league I coach in are allowed 5 subs rolling with 8 changes in total but thats not in the AIL.
I get the impression you want to school me now Kofi.
Excuse my shameful pig ignorance.
bazzaj

Re: Premeditated Subs?????

Post by bazzaj »

Still waiting Kofi.
I dont think I will sleep till I know.
bazzaj

Re: Premeditated Subs?????

Post by bazzaj »

:sleeping:
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Shan
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Re: Premeditated Subs?????

Post by Shan »

Scranner wrote:

Surely the idea of subs is that they are the best available after the first team is picked. You might know that Player A (a prop) is not good enough for international rugby but he is the best available. Does that mean you don't pick him as a sub (only to be used in case of emergency)?
I wouldn't agree with that although in an exceptional circumstance where you are down to the bare bones I would. The best available alternatives were not selected in at least 2 of the bench positions(Murphy isn't even proven at H Cup Level and Boss who was never international standard) TOD and Reddan / Marmion are the better options and all are international standard IMO. Cronin is the other one with a bit of a question mark for me but he has shown he can manage at this level. He is a stopgap while waiting for Strauss to return and while waiting for Casey to develop as he looks pretty class(Shannon Man so I may be slightly biased :D )

McGrath is the best available and is international standard. He has shown that.

Moore is already a better option than Ross so passes my test.

Hendo is the best available option(because of Ryan not being fit and Tuohy being injured) and to my eyes is international standard. OK he is raw but I wouldn't be nervous if I saw him named.

Jackson is best available and has already proven he is international standard. Must be trusted IMO despite some questions about his kicking...... Sexton's kicking frailties cost us the game v NZ(penalty miss) and cost us the game yesterday to an extent(inability to do one of his basic jobs of kicking off into play ultimately leading to England Try)

McFadden is the best available due to his ability to cover centre and wing and is clearly international standard as we saw when he was our best player on the AI's.


So therefore the only one I would have been reluctant to take off is Best but he was ballixed as he put in an awful amount of work through the game and I still would have made the hard call at 60 mark or so. Murphy and Boss should not have been there so that is a different argument and one which Joe needs to answer for.
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rumncoke
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Re: Premeditated Subs?????

Post by rumncoke »

Shan Boss is there because Jackson is there. Half backs basically need to be seen as combination selections Sexton like RoG before him is a kicking out half while Jackson is a linking out half who is not a kicker from a set piece most kicks from a defensive line out would be kicked by Ruan. Boss like Ruan is a " box" kicker Murray seldom kicks he relies on the out half which is why Sexton was under pressure .

Similarly because Boss is Kicker makes many of those who demean him accusing him of being slow . Whereas it is because he plays the position differently to Springer who was a passer



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bazzaj

Re: Premeditated Subs?????

Post by bazzaj »

We made 5 subs inside the last 10 minutes including 2 in the last minute.
I just dont see how a player like Best who plays regularly 80 minutes for his club cant survive another 7 minutes at international level.
And 1 minute to go there is just no point, especially when we could win the game and as someone said earlier it is probably about apppearance fees.
If the case then thats shocking.
MattMo
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Re: Premeditated Subs?????

Post by MattMo »

Honestly I think it is less of a "we need to empty the bench" and more that they are now aiming the subs to take on the opposing subs. 60 minutes tends to be the point at which a tight head is replaced, where there may be 1 or 2 scrums after it until the opposing loosehead is brought on, to use the general extra fitness of the looseheads to tire a new tighthead slightly, before battering him with a fresh one.

While I get that it can destabilise a team, that's really just down to poor coaching, as all 23 should be "the team" and every sub should know exactly what he needs to do, and should be comfortable doing it. More importantly, those in the starting 15 should also be comfortable playing with the bench players, and know what to expect when they come on. It should change the dynamic of the team, and shouldn't be a like-for-like, but sometimes all that is needed is the extra energy.

The perceived balance of the team may change, but so will the other team, so now a days because of the "on-mass" subbing, coaches will react to bring on the bench that they have coached each player to play a certain way, and therefore selected to play against what they are up against.

Obviously this applies mostly to good coaches. People like Gatland just have bulk and ability to keep the game plan the same.
Payne to play 13 for Leinster or 15 for Ulster
bazzaj

Re: Premeditated Subs?????

Post by bazzaj »

Matt that is a spot on assertion of what coaches want to get out of their subs and their logic for doing so but I dislike the inflexibility of it all.
Lots of us have problems with players who we often accuse of not playing whats in front of them with their heads up and sticking to instruction regardless.
Thats a similar the issue I have with coaches who stick ridgidly with their pre-plannned substitutions rather than basing it on the actual evidence in front of them of a players performance or fatigue.
Its rugby by numbers.

As someone said MA is the one coach who doesnt tend to do this and a lot of the reason why I like him as he is prepared to adapt and plan according to the circumstances at that particular time.
Funnily enough his players do the same.
Look at any tight big match, his irreplaceables like Best and Afoa in the front row, are playing at the business end of the game- the recent tigers match being the prime example.
After all thats the time when you need them the most.
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