Hook has a go at Payne

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TMHG
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Re: Hook has a go at Payne

Post by TMHG »

BaggyTrousers wrote: Trust me, it isn't unfair in the slightest, I know it for an absolute fact. Ask me sometime how come Felix Jones got called into the U20 team who won the Grand Slam and the clown Fitzgerald was too busy/good/self-important to play because he wasn't a kid, he had played a few times for Mexico.

Not now, I can barely be bothered discussing the idiot - sometime if I appear in a good mood, ask me.
I think you are being a bit unfair to Luke Fitz. This is what Elwood said about how Jones got into the U20s squad.
Elwood revealed that Jones first came to prominence following an injury to Irish talent Luke Fitzgerald.

“Luke was underage at the time, was training with the senior squad, got an injury as was not released down to us. Felix came on in his place and scored two tries against Wales in his first game.

“He was outstanding in that campaign. I would say that he is very similar to Luke in the way he plays the game.

“There were times we were playing against bigger teams and he had to be dug out of opponents. He is not afraid to put his body on the line.

“He is a very brave player, with good all-round skills but hasn’t played a lot of rugby. I hope that will change as he will definitely benefit from the more matches that he plays.”
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Re: Hook has a go at Payne

Post by BuckRogers »

I've just rewatched the game and Payne was really quite good. He broke at least four tackles, passed well and didn't miss any tackles. He'll start again next weekend and i have no real qualms with that.

Think you are being harsh on Fitz BT but we know you ain't a huge fan of Mexicans. I'm not a huge fan of his but he might offer something different to Bowe/Zebo who have had average tournaments.
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Re: Hook has a go at Payne

Post by BuckRogers »

Actually I'll retract that statement against Bowe, he was good against Wales in hindsight. Zebo poor enough as was Kearney.
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BaggyTrousers
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Re: Hook has a go at Payne

Post by BaggyTrousers »

againstthehead wrote:
rumncoke wrote:A big Boot like Kearney's is of no benefit when a quick throw in doesn't need to be straight and wings can not chase the ball without being off side.
While many highlight the failings ? Of Payne tbh I wonder why nobody has questioned Henshaw's performances given the fact that a 13 can only perform if given the opportunity to by those inside him .

The fact is the Irish backs have failed as an attacking force because Ireland have been playing flat close to opposition because outside the opposition 22 Ireland have been playing kick and chase .
Or when a passing game is adopted frequently it is based on the Sexton wrap around which of course puts Sexton between Henshaw and Payne and requires Sexton to start the move on a lateral run which provides time for the defence to close and mark players .

It is no accident the Welsh try came from a deep lying back line running at pace beyond the cover defence





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Wise up. It shouldn't matter if Payne gets the ball. He should be making line breaks and scoring tries at will...
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Re: Hook has a go at Payne

Post by BaggyTrousers »

TMHG wrote:
BaggyTrousers wrote: Trust me, it isn't unfair in the slightest, I know it for an absolute fact. Ask me sometime how come Felix Jones got called into the U20 team who won the Grand Slam and the clown Fitzgerald was too busy/good/self-important to play because he wasn't a kid, he had played a few times for Mexico.

Not now, I can barely be bothered discussing the idiot - sometime if I appear in a good mood, ask me.
I think you are being a bit unfair to Luke Fitz. This is what Elwood said about how Jones got into the U20s squad.
Elwood revealed that Jones first came to prominence following an injury to Irish talent Luke Fitzgerald.

“Luke was underage at the time, was training with the senior squad, got an injury as was not released down to us. Felix came on in his place and scored two tries against Wales in his first game.

“He was outstanding in that campaign. I would say that he is very similar to Luke in the way he plays the game.

“There were times we were playing against bigger teams and he had to be dug out of opponents. He is not afraid to put his body on the line.

“He is a very brave player, with good all-round skills but hasn’t played a lot of rugby. I hope that will change as he will definitely benefit from the more matches that he plays.”

I happen to know better, Eric for whatever reason, was skirting around the truth, which is that the idiot was not acting like a member of the squad ..............enough said, no dispute, I have it from them that knows.

What Eric is not wrong about is that Felix Jones was outstanding and it was from then that great hopes of him really coming through were hatched. Sadly injury has hampered him and in all honesty apart from boundless enthusiasm, I'm not sure his game has developed as was hoped.
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
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Re: Hook has a go at Payne

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BuckRogers wrote:I've just rewatched the game and Payne was really quite good. He broke at least four tackles, passed well and didn't miss any tackles. He'll start again next weekend and i have no real qualms with that.

Think you are being harsh on Fitz BT but we know you ain't a huge fan of Mexicans. I'm not a huge fan of his but he might offer something different to Bowe/Zebo who have had average tournaments.
Buck, the Mexican offers very little but running around in ever decreasing circles & making errors on an industrial scale. As I never tire of pointing out he has the worst record of any international wing (where he has played almost all of his caps) of those with 25 caps or more. 26 non-scoring internationals out of 27 and he has faced some dross in his time.

HIs inclusion would be more or less a guarantee that Ireland won't trouble the stattos come end of play on Saturday evening.

Tommy for all his indifferent form (mind you he has just been used as a kick chaser & tackle misser in the 6Ns) has the knack of being in the right place at the right time & is a technician, LF is a waste of skin & tissue, blood & oxygen.

Zebo? Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh. He has played worse but like Tommy has barely had a a touch. I think you are hard on them both, they have had the most peripheral parts of the now unravelled masterplan. Not many wingers worth their salt want to be no more than kick chasers.
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
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Re: Hook has a go at Payne

Post by Snipe Watson »

When Felix Jones broke into the U20 scene he looked every inch the golden child. You would have bet money you didn't have that by now he would be an ever present in the Ireland 15 shirt and a shoo-in for the Lions. Injury halted his momentum and he never regained it.
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Re: Hook has a go at Payne

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He runs like a donkey
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BaggyTrousers
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Re: Hook has a go at Payne

Post by BaggyTrousers »

Russ wrote:He runs like a donkey
More like a green colt, I've never seen a donkey run with that level of enthusiasm.
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
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Re: Hook has a go at Payne

Post by rumncoke »

A lot of players especially backs look good at U 20 level because they have pace and teams at that level lack well organised defences . Thus gaps are there to be exploited but add a couple of years and players become experienced and teams organised and the gaps that these guys ran at don't exist plus the fact when you come up against the professional a tackle is a tackle and it slows players down .

I've seen a good many young players bounce off an older experience players .

One thing Baggy and I agree one is Fitzgerald is a fart propelled balloon .


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Russ
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Re: Hook has a go at Payne

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BaggyTrousers wrote:
Russ wrote:He runs like a donkey
More like a green colt, I've never seen a donkey run with that level of enthusiasm.
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Re: Hook has a go at Payne

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Tonic Wine wrote:Caves is simply underpowered and too slow for test rugby.The team seems underpowered as it is.When will Stuart olding be back?
TW, if you plan to post much, please try to get the players' names right. It's Cave (155 caps for Ulster), a well known player to most.
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Re: Hook has a go at Payne

Post by Dave »

Joe has a go at Hook:
"I was incredibly disappointed with one of the so-called pundits slating one of our midfield last weekend when I thought he'd played a good game. He made a couple of line breaks and was dead solid defensively."

"That sort of thing, when we're trying to build confidence in players, filters back and I don't think it helps. I don't think it's accurate, it's one of those unfortunate by-products of having people for entertainment value as opposed to people who are a little bit more in-depth in their analysis."


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BaggyTrousers
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Re: Hook has a go at Payne

Post by BaggyTrousers »

rumncoke wrote:A lot of players especially backs look good at U 20 level because they have pace and teams at that level lack well organised defences . Thus gaps are there to be exploited but add a couple of years and players become experienced and teams organised and the gaps that these guys ran at don't exist plus the fact when you come up against the professional a tackle is a tackle and it slows players down .

I've seen a good many young players bounce off an older experience players .

One thing Baggy and I agree one is Fitzgerald is a fart propelled balloon .

I'm sure we must agree on something more than that Rum'n but at least you bullshitometer is working in respect of Fitzgerald. :thumleft:
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
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Re: Hook has a go at Payne

Post by BaggyTrousers »

Dave wrote:Joe has a go at Hook:
"I was incredibly disappointed with one of the so-called pundits slating one of our midfield last weekend when I thought he'd played a good game. He made a couple of line breaks and was dead solid defensively."

"That sort of thing, when we're trying to build confidence in players, filters back and I don't think it helps. I don't think it's accurate, it's one of those unfortunate by-products of having people for entertainment value as opposed to people who are a little bit more in-depth in their analysis."


Oh where will it end?
Fibber Joe, eh? I always think it takes a particular type of moron to use the "so-called" bullshite when prefacing opinions of the comments of others. It's the sort of thing you expect from a pathetic wee boy who needs to toughen up. If he wants to insult George let him do so without resorting to a wee child's jibe.

What further marks Fibber Joe out as a moron, is that like several morons here, he wrongly attempted to narrow Hook's comments down to Payne's performance last Saturday, which as any decent judge could tell you was "adequate in some respects". Morons, including Fibber Joe, would have you believe Payne was outstanding but you could only say that it your definition of outstanding encompasses a very generous appreciation of his narrow brief from Fibber. In effect he was a good little Nazi following orders to the letter, not one iota more than that.

The best that could be said of Jared's performance is that he performed the narrow Fibber brief better than in previous games, such as England where he ran a very un-centre-like line which effectively blew Ireland's best chance of a try.

Of course anyone with a remote spark of intelligence will know that Hook, a long time opponent of projects, believes that Payne's game at 13 is nowhere near the required level of an international centre. Fibber Joe simply attempts to put his view down by attaching it to Payne's best performance of the competition, thus muddying the waters whilst Hook's point is both correct & far more general that morons can understand.

Jared as every Ulster supporter knows is infinitely more creative from 15 compared to his solid, probably stolid game at 13. I believe it to be a waste of a considerably talented full back, the position I want him in at Ulster for very obviously he is no Darren Cave, no Henshaw & most certainly no BOD. It is also a waste of Henshaw in his better position outside of 15. For want of opposition Henshaw should be Ireland's 13 for the foreseeable future.

Finally on morons, Fibber Joe's moronic affliction is similar to a functioning alcoholic, he is able to give the impression that he is a high functioning individual whilst almost always hiding his underlying moronic self. Like a functioning alcoholic, this high functioning moron occasionally reveals hints of his underlying deadly condition - like his selection of Payne, and most recently like his selection of Fitzgerald over several more deserving players, Zebo included.

I hate Kiwis - except Fat Nick, great guy Fat Nick.
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
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