Lions Tour of NZ 2017

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Bart S
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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by Bart S » Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:05 pm

Russ wrote:
shamalicious wrote:Gatland will be praised for getting a draw out of this series, but I think some of his selections have been particularly poor. AWJ has equalled(?) the record for most lions test matches but has been very lucky to do so. Warburton did so little to justify selection to start let alone be tour captain, but it would've made Gats look silly if he didn't parachute Sam in for the 2nd and 3rd tests. Spare a thought for Peter O'Mahoney who went from first test captain to not even in the 23 for the second two tests.

Had he made better calls, we might be looking at a Lions series win. NZ were poor by their standards.
Spare a thought for the only hooker who can hook anf has the best lineout stats in the NH

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Rory was eclipsed by Owens during the 6 Nations and by Jamie George during this tour. He was good (nothing more) against England but has shown very little in the other games for Ireland this year and was also just ok for the Lions on this tour. I think age has caught up with him in terms of some of his effectiveness at the breakdown and he did little to dispel concerns about his throwing on this tour. Yes Jamie George felt the pressure yesterday but he was pretty good for 2.5 tests.

As i said previously, Rory is better than Ken Owens but his form at the time of both Lions tours has not been great.

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Russ
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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by Russ » Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:09 pm

Bart S wrote:
Russ wrote:
shamalicious wrote:Gatland will be praised for getting a draw out of this series, but I think some of his selections have been particularly poor. AWJ has equalled(?) the record for most lions test matches but has been very lucky to do so. Warburton did so little to justify selection to start let alone be tour captain, but it would've made Gats look silly if he didn't parachute Sam in for the 2nd and 3rd tests. Spare a thought for Peter O'Mahoney who went from first test captain to not even in the 23 for the second two tests.

Had he made better calls, we might be looking at a Lions series win. NZ were poor by their standards.
Spare a thought for the only hooker who can hook anf has the best lineout stats in the NH

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Rory was eclipsed by Owens during the 6 Nations and by Jamie George during this tour. He was good (nothing more) against England but has shown very little in the other games for Ireland this year and was also just ok for the Lions on this tour. I think age has caught up with him in terms of some of his effectiveness at the breakdown and he did little to dispel concerns about his throwing on this tour. Yes Jamie George felt the pressure yesterday but he was pretty good for 2.5 tests.

As i said previously, Rory is better than Ken Owens but his form at the time of both Lions tours has not been great.
Guff

Scrum was under pressure and you leave your only scrummaging hooker in the stands. Clueless

George throws crazy lineouts and the man with the best lineout stats is in the stand

Owens is a journeyman who wouldn't get in a single other tier 1 side and maybe not even tier 2

Rowntree though hates Rory

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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by Bart S » Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:35 pm

Russ wrote:
Bart S wrote:
Russ wrote:
shamalicious wrote:Gatland will be praised for getting a draw out of this series, but I think some of his selections have been particularly poor. AWJ has equalled(?) the record for most lions test matches but has been very lucky to do so. Warburton did so little to justify selection to start let alone be tour captain, but it would've made Gats look silly if he didn't parachute Sam in for the 2nd and 3rd tests. Spare a thought for Peter O'Mahoney who went from first test captain to not even in the 23 for the second two tests.

Had he made better calls, we might be looking at a Lions series win. NZ were poor by their standards.
Spare a thought for the only hooker who can hook anf has the best lineout stats in the NH

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Rory was eclipsed by Owens during the 6 Nations and by Jamie George during this tour. He was good (nothing more) against England but has shown very little in the other games for Ireland this year and was also just ok for the Lions on this tour. I think age has caught up with him in terms of some of his effectiveness at the breakdown and he did little to dispel concerns about his throwing on this tour. Yes Jamie George felt the pressure yesterday but he was pretty good for 2.5 tests.

As i said previously, Rory is better than Ken Owens but his form at the time of both Lions tours has not been great.
Guff

Scrum was under pressure and you leave your only scrummaging hooker in the stands. Clueless

George throws crazy lineouts and the man with the best lineout stats is in the stand

Owens is a journeyman who wouldn't get in a single other tier 1 side and maybe not even tier 2

Rowntree though hates Rory

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Rory had the 5th best lineout stats in this year's 6 Nations. Owens had the best. Rory's darts weren't great early on the tour either.

Rowntree or Gatland may have had concerns over selecting him and he simply didn't do enough to allay them.

For the record I would have put him on the bench but he has not been that good this year for any of the teams he has played for.

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Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by rumncoke » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:12 am

I can understand Gartland's attitude to Rory to some extent -- Rory is a ground Hogg hooker and try's to contest the Ruck to win turnovers -- and while he is effective in that role -- it's at a cost of one or two penalties per game .

Gartland was not that interested in turnovers being won at ruck time - his game was based on defence round the Ruck and bodies mid field with a low penalty count .Thus Gartland didn't want the Talents Best possesses .

I being one of many expected 0 - 3 humiliation of the Lions in the tests and while I never considered much of Gartland's selections it has to be admitted that the players selected delivered the game plan he had chosen . Which was one of kicking short by the half backs and inside centres and playing speedy chasers after the kicks with a short carry game by his forward ball carriers until his half backs could kick from behind a wall of protection in the hope to play the game in the all blacks half .

As a test series it is and will be easily forgotten with only one Try worthy of recall in the first Test.

Given the limited talent available behind the scrum and the nature of the modern game with cross field flat defence that as a rugby Gartland is actually better Coach than
many on this board would admit - he actually got results from a squad most considered weak and no match for the all Blacks . ( admittedly the All Blacks failed to deliver and messed up
their opportunities )

The Lions as a brand is safe and will be as long as the tours show a profit for the hosts .

while the Lions for some now lack some of the magic of old and Professionalism may reduce the fun of touring the fact reminds many of the players involved could be the Administrators of tomorrow and the shared memories might provide a basis of mutual respect in years ahead .




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justinr73
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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by justinr73 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:22 am

I thought it was fitting that the only contribution of Owens to the series was ruled accidental.

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Russ
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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by Russ » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:35 am

justinr73 wrote:I thought it was fitting that the only contribution of Owens to the series was ruled accidental.
Was he the worst player on tour?
Possibly the worst capped test lion in the past 100 years

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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by Cockatrice » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:12 am

For me the try in the dying minutes of the First Test from Reece Webb was key to turning this around for the Lions.. for those great thinkers that can work with the minds of players that provided the seed to hang onto a hope that all was not lost even in defeat..

It provided a platform to take into the second test albeit other factors such as the SBW red card, the missing of Vunipola's deliberate assault on Barrett's head whilst lying on the ground away from the play, a last minute penalty decision to give the Lions a penalty plus another last minute overturned penalty and the AB's Achilles heel of Barrett and his kicking boots... all have provided a PR/Marketing masterclass in ensuring that Lions tours are viable for the foreseeable future..

The play may not have been pretty but rest assured it was intense at the highest level.. and yes Gatland is better than the banker status most on here place him at..

Davies was brilliant and he could easy make 13 for the AB's although he still couldn't make our classy Best in Europe backline which would have run both those sides side to side all night long. Anyhow I hear it has all changed at UR and a new style of play that will lead the world is coming to a pitch near you from September..
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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by BaggyTrousers » Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:02 pm

Russ wrote:
justinr73 wrote:I thought it was fitting that the only contribution of Owens to the series was ruled accidental.
Was he the worst player on tour?
Possibly the worst capped test lion in the past 100 years

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You are forgetting Mike Blair, Ross Ford & the only winger in international rugby with a worse try tally than the now retired Fitwank, Roger Baird. For those with elephantine memory, you could go back to yet another Scot, Mike Campbell-Lamerton.
Support the team and coaching staff. Forget the rest,BUT NEVER MOVE ON.

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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by Cockatrice » Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:22 pm

I thought Zebo was pretty shyte but I accept there are much worse... I was disappointed that having taken my boots (ala Tom Court) I didn't get the call.. even I could have run Savea's non-try into the corner.
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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by bazzaj » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:00 pm

BaggyTrousers wrote:
Russ wrote:
justinr73 wrote:I thought it was fitting that the only contribution of Owens to the series was ruled accidental.
Was he the worst player on tour?
Possibly the worst capped test lion in the past 100 years

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You are forgetting Mike Blair, Ross Ford & the only winger in international rugby with a worse try tally than the now retired Fitwank, Roger Baird. For those with elephantine memory, you could go back to yet another Scot, Mike Campbell-Lamerton.
Don't think Blair was a test Lion Bagster but Baird is a great shout.
Same tour 1983 Gywn Evans was a test fullback worthy of notoriety.
However my personal worst test Lion was Andy Reed in 1993.
Some of the Scots on that tour were an utter disgrace and gave up.
And they wonder why they don't get picked.

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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by BaggyTrousers » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:31 pm

bazzaj wrote:
BaggyTrousers wrote:
Russ wrote:
justinr73 wrote:I thought it was fitting that the only contribution of Owens to the series was ruled accidental.
Was he the worst player on tour?
Possibly the worst capped test lion in the past 100 years

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You are forgetting Mike Blair, Ross Ford & the only winger in international rugby with a worse try tally than the now retired Fitwank, Roger Baird. For those with elephantine memory, you could go back to yet another Scot, Mike Campbell-Lamerton.
Don't think Blair was a test Lion Bagster but Baird is a great shout.
Same tour 1983 Gywn Evans was a test fullback worthy of notoriety.
However my personal worst test Lion was Andy Reed in 1993.
Some of the Scots on that tour were an utter disgrace and gave up.
And they wonder why they don't get picked.
FFFS Jizzbeg, you should know better. I thought the fooking Lions were your specialist subject. >EW

He actually played all 4 tests in 1983 and scored his first ever international try in the third test. The remarkable thing about Baird is that he played almost 30 tests for Scotland, never scored a try yet was selected for 6/7 seasons & got the Lions Tour so his sum total of international tries is 1. Trust me Jizzer, I know all about Baird, I've used him for years as the only international winger who has played more than 20 tests and scored fewer tries than Fitzwank.

A certain Dr Davy Irwin played in 3 tests on that tour.

EDIT: I sorry, I see it was Blair & not Baird you were challenging, and you are right, he only went out as a replacement.
Support the team and coaching staff. Forget the rest,BUT NEVER MOVE ON.

FIRFU - FU'CK YOU ONE AND ALL, CAVING IN TO SPONSORS, SACKING THE INNOCENT FOR A FEW DOLLARS MORE, SHAMEFUL BASTA'RDS. YOU'VE LOST MY SUPPORT & I HOPE MORE ULSTERMEN & WOMEN

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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by bazzaj » Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:05 pm

UlsterNo9 wrote:
Russ wrote:The kiwis need to accept that they have had issues with their players and stop defending them at all costs

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Lest we forget!

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... o-11338913
The astonishing story of the shamed All Black who disappeared after being sent home from Wales in disgrace
He was part of the All Blacks' 1972 tour of Wales but was put on a plane home. He never arrived back in New Zealand

When Wales embark on their three-Test tour to New Zealand next month it will renew proud rugby rivalries stretching back 111-years and 30 matches.

Their clashes at Eden Park, Auckland, the Westpac Stadium, Wellington and Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin, will see former All Blacks come from far and wide to see if New Zealand can stretch their winning run against Wales going all the way back to Ken Jones’ famous try in 1953.

But ex-prop Keith Murdoch won’t be among them as the myth living a nomadic life in the Australian Outback, for more than 40 years, continues to grow.

Murdoch arrived in Wales in October 1972 and headlines splashed across the Western Mail reported how the “giant Otago prop” was the “biggest chested player to ever represent the All Blacks”.

The team tailor said of Murdoch’s 48-inch chest: “Ordinary fittings wouldn’t go anywhere near him – I had to sew two or three inches of extra material into this shirt sleeves.”

Though his reputation preceded him as granite-hardened farmer, who’s prone to throwing the odd haymaker, he left a real impression on Llanelli at the start of the tour for his vigorous rucking.

Llanelli triumphed 9-3 at Stradey Park and went down in folklore through Max Boyce’s iconic song when the pubs ran dry in the town.

But a month later Murdoch was about to start penning a script, Hollywood film producers would dismiss out of hand, for being too far-fetched.

The December 2 Test pitted Ian Kirkpatrick’s All Blacks against a Wales side featuring JPR Williams, Gerald Davies, Phil Bennett and Gareth Edwards.

The National Stadium was crammed with 52,000 people and Murdoch played the game of his life, scoring the winning try in the 19-16 victory.

The celebrations were in the Angel Hotel nearby.

When the bar closed, the moustached Murdoch went searching for more beers in the kitchen, only to be confronted by security guard Peter Grant.

Insults and then punches were thrown and Grant ended on the floor with a black eye.

The late-night incident made front page news in the South Wales Echo and The Western Mail, as well as in New Zealand.

Grant, 29, of Cwmbran, told reporters that he’d gone into the kitchen after hearing complaints that Murdoch was annoying staff.

“He tried to punch one of his tour officials and I stepped in to restrain him. They managed to get him away but then he came round from some pillars and punched me,” Grant said.

“They held me back to stop me getting at him. Our men restrained him, with one or two of the New Zealand players helping. It was ridiculous. We were there to protect the New Zealanders. This should never have happened.”

After initially only disciplining Murdoch, All Blacks manager Ernie Todd two days later decided to send him home “for his own good”. “It was not an easy decision to make,” he said.

Within two days he was on a plane, the first All Black to be sent home from a tour.

But he never arrived.

At a changeover in Singapore, he used an assumed name to fly to Australia and was never seen in public again for years.

It’s thought he switched flights to Darwin in Australia’s Northern Territory, where he vanished.

Repeated attempts to contact him and bring him back into the NZ rugby fold failed.

He has spent much of the time wandering in Australia.

Some journalists have found him, however.

In 1977, Terry McLean tracked down Murdoch at an oil-drilling site near Perth in Western Australia.

Murdoch unceremoniously told the reporter what he could do with his questions. McLean quickly left.

Three years later he was seen in New Zealand.

Friends told how Murdoch had saved their son from drowning in a swimming pool.

New Zealand journalist Margot McRae found him in 1990 in Tully, Queensland.

Murdoch only agreed to speak off-camera.

“He was a deeply shy person and not very articulate,” said McRae, who eventually wrote a play, “Finding Murdoch”.

“There was a real sense of a wound that has never healed,” she said.

In 2001, Murdoch was called as a witness in an inquest into the death of a Aboriginal man in the Northern Territory.

The then 57-year-old had caught the 20-year-old breaking into his home in Tennant Creek, north of Alice Springs.

The young man’s body was found in an abandoned mine weeks later.

Murdoch was never named as a suspect and said little at the inquest, where he again ignored the media.

A few years back All Blacks flanker Kirkpatrick – Murdoch’s captain on the ‘72 tour – issued a plea for his former teammate to be left in peace. “It is better to leave him alone now, the poor bugger,” Kirkpatrick told Fairfax newspapers in New Zealand.

But while Murdoch is out of sight he’s certainly not out of mind with the All Blacks and players and coaches.

Some visit the Angel Hotel when in Cardiff, including last year’s Rugby World Cup matches, to remember their fallen giant.

The last time was two days before beating Georgia 43-10 last autumn, a staff member at the Angel told AFP.

“There were seven or eight of them, players and coaches. They stayed for an hour, drank one or two beers and left, as usual,” the worker said.

A team spokesman said it is not an official pilgrimage “but every time the All Blacks are in Cardiff there are some players who will go to the hotel to pay their respects”.

Though nobody knows where Murdoch is living today it seems the myth of the New Zealand front-rower lives on nearly 44 years after the greatest sporting disappearance acts of all time.
Keith Murdoch is one of the dirtiest players in history.
When Llanelli famously beat them on the same tour Murdoch basically spent the game kicking the living tray out of them inspiring Cliff Morgan to say " Keith Murdoch what a dirty dirty player he truly is".

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Russ
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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by Russ » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:15 am

Kyle Sinckler has been arrested

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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by BaggyTrousers » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:46 am

justinr73 wrote:I thought it was fitting that the only contribution of Owens to the series was ruled accidental.

>clapping >clapping >clapping :lol:

Quality Justin :thumleft:

Others quoting nonsense about a team's lineout stats and attributing it solely to the hooker should look squarely into the mirror, engage their eyes and ask, "am I not better than this" , then they should think of Owens first contribution at a Lions Lineout and remember it almost went to the scrum half.

I hate the Lions, I love Rory Best. I feared for Rory from the outset for I've never entrusted his care to Gatland since he didn't initially pick him 4 years ago. I do feel Rory needs to be trusted and he's never got that from that Warren Gatland, Warren Gatland.

One of my main reasons for Lions hating is that normally sensible people suddenly buy into the Anglo-Welsh hierarchy view of a player who led 14 man Ireland to the first ever win on Saffer soil and Ireland's first win against NZ, both games in which he played magnificently, to a level that a hapless sospan and England's 2nd best hooker can only dream of. But for Poite's ludicrous change of mind, it should be Owens now enjoying the scapegoating for losing the series, some get massive breaks others don't, especially with Gatland in charge.

Give my two fûcking heads peace from your drivel.

Rory Best is a great player, those stupid enough to judge him on two tours with Gatland and denigrate him, have not just my scorn, but my weighty opprobrium.

Please die soon you cûnts.
Support the team and coaching staff. Forget the rest,BUT NEVER MOVE ON.

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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by BaggyTrousers » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:51 am

Russ wrote:Kyle Sinckler has been arrested

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I understand it was for disproportionate celebration of an opponents knock on. :roll:
Support the team and coaching staff. Forget the rest,BUT NEVER MOVE ON.

FIRFU - FU'CK YOU ONE AND ALL, CAVING IN TO SPONSORS, SACKING THE INNOCENT FOR A FEW DOLLARS MORE, SHAMEFUL BASTA'RDS. YOU'VE LOST MY SUPPORT & I HOPE MORE ULSTERMEN & WOMEN

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