Lions Tour of NZ 2017

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Russ
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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by Russ » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:12 am

BaggyTrousers wrote:
Russ wrote:Kyle Sinckler has been arrested

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I understand it was for disproportionate celebration of an opponents knock on. :roll:
No no Maro was given a public order offence and bound over to keep the peace

Sinckler jumped into 2 kiwis trying to tackle each other in a night club

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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by Bangors » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:18 am

I've been away and only just watched the 3rd test so apologise if my comments have been voiced already
IMO Rory would have made a big difference in the Lions favour because
1. when so many scrums remained static the fact that he actually hooks the ball would have moved the ball to the no 8's feet and allowed it to be cleared more easily
2. his undoubted ability in the loose to win turnovers and slow the AB's ball
3. the selected hookers gave away a couple of penalties re crooked throws - just like Rory

Also the AB's appeared to feed the ball into the scrum through the props feet and were not penalised

I think with Rory and a little help from the ref the Lions would have dominated the scrum

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Dave
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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by Dave » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:22 am

I know he didn't play a test but impressive stats from Hendo all the same. Just below the screenshot, AWJ allegedly conceded 9 turnovers. Taken from BS site so might be BS.

Form your own analysis, I have deliberately not made any comment on stats or their usage in analysing a players performance. Image
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Dave
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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by Dave » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:29 am

Russ wrote:Kyle Sinckler has been arrested

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He seems to be this tour's class clown. In the documentary we will see hilarious pi$h taking from other more established players such as SOB and AWJ.
I have my own tv channel, what have you got?

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againstthehead
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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by againstthehead » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:34 am

rumncoke wrote:I can understand Gartland's attitude to Rory to some extent -- Rory is a ground Hogg hooker and try's to contest the Ruck to win turnovers -- and while he is effective in that role -- it's at a cost of one or two penalties per game .

Gartland was not that interested in turnovers being won at ruck time - his game was based on defence round the Ruck and bodies mid field with a low penalty count .Thus Gartland didn't want the Talents Best possesses .

I being one of many expected 0 - 3 humiliation of the Lions in the tests and while I never considered much of Gartland's selections it has to be admitted that the players selected delivered the game plan he had chosen . Which was one of kicking short by the half backs and inside centres and playing speedy chasers after the kicks with a short carry game by his forward ball carriers until his half backs could kick from behind a wall of protection in the hope to play the game in the all blacks half .

As a test series it is and will be easily forgotten with only one Try worthy of recall in the first Test.

Given the limited talent available behind the scrum and the nature of the modern game with cross field flat defence that as a rugby Gartland is actually better Coach than
many on this board would admit - he actually got results from a squad most considered weak and no match for the all Blacks . ( admittedly the All Blacks failed to deliver and messed up
their opportunities )

The Lions as a brand is safe and will be as long as the tours show a profit for the hosts .

while the Lions for some now lack some of the magic of old and Professionalism may reduce the fun of touring the fact reminds many of the players involved could be the Administrators of tomorrow and the shared memories might provide a basis of mutual respect in years ahead .




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I enjoyed that post - summed it up pretty well I thought. I'd just add that Rory does seem to add value at scrum-time and I thought you were a little harsh on the tries. Read's flick in the 1st test was pretty memorable and the hookers pick up off the toes was decent too. Of course, not end to end stuff but some decent finishing. Perhaps not a classic series but one in which the Lions came away with a lot more than most would have imagined beforehand.
Climb up onto the top of your house and start screaming: 'stand up for the Ulstermen, stand.......'

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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by jean valjean » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:35 am

Some irish players just haven't had much luck on lions tours. For all bods talent and 4 trips he got sent home injured early in 2 and dropped in the last. Paulie missed a fair chunk when captain and poor Rog got his head knocked in and lost the series.

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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by bazzaj » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:58 pm

Irish players traditionally make the best tourists.
As a people we have great social skills and an ability to bond people together.
My brother told me that a top international company insists on Irish people going on overseas trips for that reason!

Successful Lions tours have Irish men at the core.
Even the 1989 side which was the first to have no Irish in its test side, relied on Donals donuts the midweek team captained by Donal Lenihan to get the tour on track by defeating ACT after being slaughtered in the first test.

The lowest representation was 2 in 1993 when only Mick Galway and Poppy were initially selected.
Unsurprisingly it was one of the most divided tours in history.

Rory Best might not have been a test Lion but all the noises out of the camp were that he was the most influential.
I said before its those midweek players that are every bit as important as the test side to ensure a successful tour.
Don't underestimate Rorys contribution.

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Dave
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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by Dave » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:26 pm

The Japanese are the best tourists.
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UlsterNo9
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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by UlsterNo9 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:42 pm

2001 Lost series
2005 Lost series
2009 Lost Series
2013 Won Series - Gatland
2017 Drew Series - Gatland
2021 - Gatland
BRING OUR BOYS HOME #BOBH
THROWN UNDER THE BUS AND EXILED 14/04/18

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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by bazzaj » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:12 pm

Dave wrote:The Japanese are the best tourists.
Once heard it said that the Irish don't need to invade a country with an armed force to take it over.
It just takes them one bloke with a sleeping bag and a phone number.

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BaggyTrousers
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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by BaggyTrousers » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:44 pm

bazzaj wrote:Irish players traditionally make the best tourists.
As a people we have great social skills and an ability to bond people together.
My brother told me that a top international company insists on Irish people going on overseas trips for that reason!

Successful Lions tours have Irish men at the core.
Even the 1989 side which was the first to have no Irish in its test side, relied on Donals donuts the midweek team captained by Donal Lenihan to get the tour on track by defeating ACT after being slaughtered in the first test.

The lowest representation was 2 in 1993 when only Mick Galway and Poppy were initially selected.
Unsurprisingly it was one of the most divided tours in history.

Rory Best might not have been a test Lion but all the noises out of the camp were that he was the most influential.
I said before it's those midweek players that are every bit as important as the test side to ensure a successful tour.
Don't underestimate Rorys contribution.
Jizzbeg, a fair smattering of common sense and the good Irish tourist has been acknowledged since I was a lad in weighty tomes on 3-month tours written by guys steeped in rugby and not someone who studied journalism but not sport as their route into things.

Sadly for all your good sense, unfortunately, people judge Lions players mainly on test matches, therefore Rory is an Ulster & Irish legend destined never to be considered a great Lion. All thanks to a despicable game playing NZ wretch & his English pal Big Ears, the ugliest man to come out of Welford Road & he has had no lack of opposition for that title. For me, the biggest turnoff is that he has had to play 3rd fiddle to two guys who make that glype from Northampton look talented.

Almost equally bizarre is that on the day that Gatland elevated Courtney Lawes, Hendy gave the best performance of any 2nd row on the entire tour albeit I didn't see the third test. Did Lawes produce anything of note? Not that I saw. Being Irish & not English or Welsh appeared to be a drawback, almost as bad as being a Scot when for my money, former Ulster current Scot, Tommy Seymour has been consistently better for several years than those two English gobshites starting the tests.

I may have mentioned I hate the Lions.With Gatland & Big Ears at the helm that won't change anytime soon, they look after their own players. It could hardly be more obvious.
Support the team and coaching staff. Forget the rest,BUT NEVER MOVE ON.

FIRFU - FU'CK YOU ONE AND ALL, CAVING IN TO SPONSORS, SACKING THE INNOCENT FOR A FEW DOLLARS MORE, SHAMEFUL BASTA'RDS. YOU'VE LOST MY SUPPORT & I HOPE MORE ULSTERMEN & WOMEN

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Snipe Watson
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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by Snipe Watson » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:03 am

I couldn't give a tuppenny toss about the Lions tour.
Rory, Jihad and Hendy are not broken and will have been the better for the experience.
It should be a surprise to nobody with eyes to see that Rory was a central figure. He's a man if impeccable character and if Les Kiss has any wit, a role will be found within the organisation once he hangs up his size 10s.
#NotMyCountry

bazzaj

Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by bazzaj » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:18 am

BaggyTrousers wrote:
bazzaj wrote:Irish players traditionally make the best tourists.
As a people we have great social skills and an ability to bond people together.
My brother told me that a top international company insists on Irish people going on overseas trips for that reason!

Successful Lions tours have Irish men at the core.
Even the 1989 side which was the first to have no Irish in its test side, relied on Donals donuts the midweek team captained by Donal Lenihan to get the tour on track by defeating ACT after being slaughtered in the first test.

The lowest representation was 2 in 1993 when only Mick Galway and Poppy were initially selected.
Unsurprisingly it was one of the most divided tours in history.

Rory Best might not have been a test Lion but all the noises out of the camp were that he was the most influential.
I said before it's those midweek players that are every bit as important as the test side to ensure a successful tour.
Don't underestimate Rorys contribution.
Jizzbeg, a fair smattering of common sense and the good Irish tourist has been acknowledged since I was a lad in weighty tomes on 3-month tours written by guys steeped in rugby and not someone who studied journalism but not sport as their route into things.

Sadly for all your good sense, unfortunately, people judge Lions players mainly on test matches, therefore Rory is an Ulster & Irish legend destined never to be considered a great Lion. All thanks to a despicable game playing NZ wretch & his English pal Big Ears, the ugliest man to come out of Welford Road & he has had no lack of opposition for that title. For me, the biggest turnoff is that he has had to play 3rd fiddle to two guys who make that glype from Northampton look talented.

Almost equally bizarre is that on the day that Gatland elevated Courtney Lawes, Hendy gave the best performance of any 2nd row on the entire tour albeit I didn't see the third test. Did Lawes produce anything of note? Not that I saw. Being Irish & not English or Welsh appeared to be a drawback, almost as bad as being a Scot when for my money, former Ulster current Scot, Tommy Seymour has been consistently better for several years than those two English gobshites starting the tests.

I may have mentioned I hate the Lions.With Gatland & Big Ears at the helm that won't change anytime soon, they look after their own players. It could hardly be more obvious.
As I mentioned before Bagster, Geechs acknowledges his greatest Lion as Jason Leonard due to the fact that he was dropped from the Saturday side but still put all his energy into preparing the front rowers that replaced him.

These people you speak of who don't acknowledge that only looking at test players contribution are the ones that need educated.
Certainly no player from the test sides would say that in victory.
Perversely I have heard the disjointed midweekers blamed for series defeat in 1993 and Healy and Dawsons antics cited in 2001.

I do find it bizarre however that the management apparently tapped into Rorys knowledge in team meetings acknowledging he has the wisdom with his experience with beating the All Blacks.
Then forget to pick him or based it on one throw v the blues more than likely, which only served to acknowledge their paranoia about his throwing yips.

Seymour was another who had a poor start on tour and he was outpaced wide which was the complete no no and death knoll for him.
In all fairness Gatlands picture boy George North was dropped for similar defensive flaws.

Hendy again was a victim of poor early tour form, a pre picked test side and a completely inflexible selection policy directly after the first test particularly concerning the Geographical 6.
However Jack Nowell had a similar tour trajectory and was still selected so maybe there is merit to what you say Bagster.

As you yourself said though Hendy doesn't consistently perform to that level and whilst he is capable of putting in a mom barnstorming display he's just as likely to do something stupid and cost the game.
Gatland was never going to roll that dice in the final test.

Hendy hopefully will be the major beneficiary on this tour as I feel he lifts his game to the level around him.
Hopefully he can now inspire our lads with those performances.
Now he has to that against the likes of the Dragons away when he's got the likes of p and Clive Ross in the same changing room.
Last edited by bazzaj on Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Russ
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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by Russ » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:02 am

BaggyTrousers wrote:
bazzaj wrote:Irish players traditionally make the best tourists.
As a people we have great social skills and an ability to bond people together.
My brother told me that a top international company insists on Irish people going on overseas trips for that reason!

Successful Lions tours have Irish men at the core.
Even the 1989 side which was the first to have no Irish in its test side, relied on Donals donuts the midweek team captained by Donal Lenihan to get the tour on track by defeating ACT after being slaughtered in the first test.

The lowest representation was 2 in 1993 when only Mick Galway and Poppy were initially selected.
Unsurprisingly it was one of the most divided tours in history.

Rory Best might not have been a test Lion but all the noises out of the camp were that he was the most influential.
I said before it's those midweek players that are every bit as important as the test side to ensure a successful tour.
Don't underestimate Rorys contribution.
Jizzbeg, a fair smattering of common sense and the good Irish tourist has been acknowledged since I was a lad in weighty tomes on 3-month tours written by guys steeped in rugby and not someone who studied journalism but not sport as their route into things.

Sadly for all your good sense, unfortunately, people judge Lions players mainly on test matches, therefore Rory is an Ulster & Irish legend destined never to be considered a great Lion. All thanks to a despicable game playing NZ wretch & his English pal Big Ears, the ugliest man to come out of Welford Road & he has had no lack of opposition for that title. For me, the biggest turnoff is that he has had to play 3rd fiddle to two guys who make that glype from Northampton look talented.

Almost equally bizarre is that on the day that Gatland elevated Courtney Lawes, Hendy gave the best performance of any 2nd row on the entire tour albeit I didn't see the third test. Did Lawes produce anything of note? Not that I saw. Being Irish & not English or Welsh appeared to be a drawback, almost as bad as being a Scot when for my money, former Ulster current Scot, Tommy Seymour has been consistently better for several years than those two English gobshites starting the tests.

I may have mentioned I hate the Lions.With Gatland & Big Ears at the helm that won't change anytime soon, they look after their own players. It could hardly be more obvious.
Lawes was dung in 3rd test
Missed tackles and made negative yards

Seems he's only effective at dwarf tossing and gbh on prone fly halves

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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by againstthehead » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:13 am

Sorry I don't buy into all this mid-week, keep the team moral up ballix. Ye need to be in the test team or at least squad to make an impact and unfortunately none of the Ulster lads made it that far. Henderson started to ask a few questions and knock on the door but too little too late for him this season. Jihad was just happy to get a free flight home. Rory I reckon would have been worth having on the bench at least but then again you know he's going to guff a lineout throw... It's harsh but little mistakes can have a big impact at the level so reliability is a big feature.
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