The Blazers

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BaggyTrousers
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Re: The Blazers

Post by BaggyTrousers »

Now listen Your Grace, unlike what poor ould Rum'n is regaling us with, your comments are not bullshite BUT in partially backing the Blazers, you appear to ignore the simple fact that all other countries have done or are expected to, move away from the nonsense of "privilege for life". I wouldn;t in any way begrudge them a couple of tickets, home & away for their service in perpetuity but beyond that there should be limits.

There is no question, nor any issue that many if not all of these Alecs & Blazers will have given of lots of time effort & perhaps money to improve, grow or sustain the game in Ireland. A Snipe says, their ascent to high office has been their choice & as you often say, their virtue should be it's own reward..........but apparently not, not by a long chalk**. All worthy men I'd assume, but in times of trouble & lousy strife, is it not reasonable that they are not on an international gravy train for life?

You introduced talk of worthy clubmen - amongst whose number I've never been counted - but this only concerns them in a highly peripheral way , this is about the lads who have made it to the top in the IRFU maintaining their jollys in perpetuity. It is utterly indefensible in these times where at the Provinces, staff are being cut & as well you know, our much vaunted line-up in the Ladies section is entirely working on a voluntary basis. Shameful stuff.

Your Grace, this last point, if no other, makes your not unexpected sop to privilege indefensible. Shame on you. >EW

** a delightful expression that "a long chalk", I believe it goes back to the days when your landlord would record your bar bill in chalk on a board. I had expected to be faced with a "chalk", for that's how they still do it, in El Reconcillo, the oldest bar in Sevilla, this past fortnight but to my considerable irritation, the entire staff of said pub took themselves off on their August holidays leaving me to drink in modern pubs, no older than a couple of hundred years. Such is my irritation at missing out on a pub older than the scuffle at the Rio Boyne, that I plan to blacken their name on Tripadvisor. That'll teach the lazy Sevillanos.
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
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BaggyTrousers
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Re: The Blazers

Post by BaggyTrousers »

I should have added, "next you'll be telling us that The House of Lords is a splendid idea", as Call me Dave gets ready to swell the the number of peers close to or above 1000, each entitled to their £300 per day attendance allowance. :roll:

The PPs of the IRFU appear to be our House of Lords, yes it has it's odd necessary function, not irreplaceable of course, but it is a shambolic nod to simple privilege.
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
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Re: The Blazers

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I count over 40 committee men listed on the IRFU report and I assume a large proportion (all?) of them are entitled to jollies, although not for life.
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Russ
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Re: The Blazers

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Every company has NEDs
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BaggyTrousers
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Re: The Blazers

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Russ wrote:Every company has NEDs
I like Neds, proper Stout :stout:
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
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Russ
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Re: The Blazers

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BaggyTrousers wrote:
Russ wrote:Every company has NEDs
I like Neds, proper Stout :stout:
NED is an absolute dream job
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BaggyTrousers
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Re: The Blazers

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Once a Knight wrote:
BaggyTrousers wrote:I should have added, "next you'll be telling us that The House of Lords is a splendid idea", as Call me Dave gets ready to swell the the number of peers close to or above 1000, each entitled to their £300 per day attendance allowance. :roll:

The PPs of the IRFU appear to be our House of Lords, yes it has it's odd necessary function, not irreplaceable of course, but it is a shambolic nod to simple privilege.
Constitutionally it is. The standard of debate is often more mature and meaningful. Much of the technical work on legislation is best done in HL committee. The amendment of HC Bills by the HL has often produced better legislation. An upper chamber is entirely necessary.

Again, reform is desirable. But infants and bath water again. If you make it elected - then the HL has the legitimacy to strike down HC legislation as it has a mandate arguably. What we have is far from ideal but constitutionally it functions well. A bit like the IRFU. :lol:
FFS man 1000 peers? Almost exclusively political appointments for services rendered. Give me a break, a second chamber is a genuine requirement in most democracies but the House of Lords is a mess.

Quality of debate? Strangely, I heard an excerpt from Tarka the Otter on R4 today, flowery language for the sake of flowery language predominates, I thought that had it been written now, it would have been have been dismissed out of hand as some jerk trying to be all airy fairy. And so to the quality debate, it certainly does pull out the odd worthwhile amendment & occasionally persuades the Commons something ill-advised is ill-advised, but I suspect that there is too much talk influenced by those who don't sit in that house.

Just one man's opinion, t'was only a comparison of the self-interest that permeates both the IRFU apparently & definitely the House of Lords. Reform, yes but in the Lords, it needs to be near enough root & branch, great concept but like many things that are wonderful conceptually it is a feck up, twisted and manipulated by successive parties playing a numbers game.
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
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BR
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Re: The Blazers

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Once a Knight wrote:It is amazing how difficult it is to reform.
You don't hold out much hope for 1D then?
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big mervyn
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Re: The Blazers

Post by big mervyn »

Once a Knight wrote:It is amazing how difficult it is to reform. Blair got rid of the hereditaries and then nominated. Now as the political hue changes the others counterbalance and all of a sudden the numbers shoot up.

Yet, the parties don't want an elected second chamber because with Electoral Legitimacy comes the mandate to say "NO!" to the lower chamber and they don't want that. Imagine all those Independant minded elected for 10 years or life Peers. Or if you do 5 year terms you end up with potentially different hues in charge of either chamber. Constitutionally it works as it is. Yet we all know reform is needed and 1000 peers is nonsense.
It would have been nice to have got rid of the political wing of the Church of England who continue to arbitrate on moral issues with views that are frequently completely at odds with the views of the UK populace.

The old argument "that it works" is akin to saying that "the trains ran on time in Nazi Germany".
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BaggyTrousers
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Re: The Blazers

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Once a Knight wrote:It is amazing how difficult it is to reform. Blair got rid of the hereditaries and then nominated. Now as the political hue changes the others counterbalance and all of a sudden the numbers shoot up.

Yet, the parties don't want an elected second chamber because with Electoral Legitimacy comes the mandate to say "NO!" to the lower chamber and they don't want that. Imagine all those Independant minded elected for 10 years or life Peers. Or if you do 5 year terms you end up with potentially different hues in charge of either chamber. Constitutionally it works as it is. Yet we all know reform is needed and 1000 peers is nonsense.
Well in Merv and furthermore, it's simply his Grace's opinion that it works. Of course it has to, after a fashion, but it is a serious mess and getting worse rather than better.

Also, the good ol' US if A is set up so that the two house may have different majorities and whilst it can wound the supreme being, El Presidente, it hasn't brought the country to its knees just yet. They also have a written constitution and whilst it is imperfect, it gives citizens a framework of rights that are simply not guaranteed here where we work around precedents and waffling from semi-sane alcoholic out of touch old judges many of whom will not be an asset to the Lords, besides which several or a few have almost certainly coalesced to protect kiddie-fiddling lowlife to carry on in high office. >threaten
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
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mikerob
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Re: The Blazers

Post by mikerob »

Once a Knight wrote:
Once a Knight wrote:Maybe at IRFU level there are too many "privileges". Or maybe there are too many qualifying for those privileges.

All I am saying is that when you walk into a drinks reception and there are lots of people wearing blazers and laughing and making small talk and drinking gin it's very easy to think that's all they do.
Baggy, may I refer you too my original point and assure you that I was merely making the contrary point that whilst reform may be necessary one doesn't want to discard the infant with the bath water. >EW

Mike points out 40 odd committee members. Surely that's 40 odd skulls who have over the years served in Clubs, Provinces and at IRFU level largely for nothing? There may well be individuals of ambition and self interest but several that I have met are genuine rugby people. I simply do not know enough about the internal politics of the IRFU to pronounce one way or the other. I doubt many here do. Though I suspect there's more to it than "dashing and virtuous young reformer done wrong by cabal of self interested and evil old goats". I'm sure there's another angle not in the Independant. I'd just like to know what it is. :lol:
I think there are a couple of different things here. Are the 40 odd committee positions an effective way to manage the IRFU? How many of the positions are just sinecures? In other words, a way of giving people access to some perks and jollies under the pretence of a fancy sounding committee title that actually does very little? (or worse, allows meddling without accountability)

So the structure to manage the IRFU is one thing. A way of providing thanks, recognition and rewards to people who have provided many years of service is another thing. It looks like a number of people in the IRFU are conflating the two.
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Re: The Blazers

Post by rumncoke »

There are very few Committees do nothing there are on the other hand a number of people on committees who do nothing but in the main they seldom get promoted to anything which carries a large number of freebies of great value .
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Re: The Blazers

Post by MattMo »

First of all, the main problem we have is that we have a nominated parliment, which instead of us voting for what they are saying, we vote for them, and nothing gets done because they have no obligation to complete that. At least with the house of Lords we know what they will do, as they tell us that before they do it. If we could change the house of lords to an open vote by the general public, it would be great, but instead we have some pseudo democratic system of people we vote for doing the opposite of what they told us, and people we didn't vote for doing whatever the heck they want.

Anyway, IRFU, probably everyone on there has an agenda, very much doubt that they all have the same agenda, just happens to be more men from Dublin than the lesser provinces (as they would see it)


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Re: The Blazers

Post by TMHG »

We're getting off lightly.

The WRU spend about £400,000 per annum on 'Directors emoluments'.
The RFU spend £1.4m per annum on their Board, the RFU even makes pension contributions for them. The Welsh Chairman is on about £30,000 pa (and it seems to be a job for life more or less).

The IRFU is one of the best run Unions, if not the best. None of the Committee/Directors are compensated. A couple of free tickets is nothing.

Be very careful for what you wish for.
A senior figure in the world governing body of rugby union has resigned from an interview panel amid claims that unsuccessful applicants for the post of chief executive were lied to. In his resignation e-mail, Peter Boyle, the former President of the Irish Rugby Football Union, told the executive committee of the International Rugby Board (IRB): “I cannot in all conscience take part in the current interview process. The process in my opinion is fundamentally flawed and not open, fair and transparent.”

E-mails and documents seen by The Times indicate that 12 applicants for the £325,000-a-year post were not properly considered and that a meeting supposedly held to assess their suitability never took place

“The contents of this letter,” Mr Boyle said, “were a total fabrication and lie —no such meeting had even taken place. Following further inquiries it has emerged the recruitment agent agreed the final four candidates with the chairman and they were notified to attend a meeting in London on May 4 and 5 without reference to the other panel members. In my opinion the process is flawed and the reputation of the IRB stands to be damaged. You don’t have a reputation if you do not have integrity and the integrity of the process is clearly flawed.”

The task of finding a chief executive to replace Mike Miller, who left in January, was set in train by Mr Lapasset, the urbane Frenchman who beat England’s Bill Beaumont to the post of chairman. The IRB appointed Odgers Berndtson, the respected London headhunters, to lead the search. More than 20 candidates applied and 16 were considered suitably qualified. In April, this was whittled down to a shortlist of four who were recommended for interview by a panel comprised of Mr Lapasset, Oregan Hoskins, the vice-chairman, and Mr Boyle. Mr Lapasset and Mr Hoskins responded to Mr Boyle’s accusations by e-mail to the executive committee. They urged that to get “this critical search back on track”, Mr Boyle’s resignation should be accepted. But they rejected his assertions about a lack of integrity. Mr Lapasset will still lead the panel but with two new members assisting him.
You need people like Boyle involved so that World Rugby does not turn into another FIFA organisation. Would Browne be in such a strong position to protest if he was the IRFU's representative on the board? Boyle had nothing to lose. Browne would.
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Re: The Blazers

Post by rumncoke »

The point is that sometimes a block booking is cheaper
Somewhat like 3 for the price of 2

This the true cost could substantially cheaper

But I repeat I'm definitely not in the freebie for life camp
But some recognition to services to the game is due
Because by the time you make President your in your 60 or 70s


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