It's Niges job to get involved. It's not Niges job to make sure he gets on TV for 25% of every gamerumncoke wrote:Why had Nigel any input to the decision ? Report the incident - yes . Having watched the replay the ref should make his own decision
Blood "Civil Service " decision by committee to avoid the flak if wrong
Toner achieved his normal card quota anybody taking him by the legs with an upward movement tips him head first .
For a ref who red carded an accident in the first 5 mins it is a hell of a back down
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Autumn Internationals 2016
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Re: Autumn Internationals 2016
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Re: Autumn Internationals 2016
[quote="BaggyTrousers"]As rugby continues to go soft, I see with consternation that Dean Mumm has been cited for upending Furlong.
It was of course within the remit of the Citing Commissioner but I thought Garces & Owens had it pegged exactly right on the day. It was illegal but not overly dangerous given it was "not dynamic". From memory only for I have not seen it again, the other Aussie involved in the lift actually brought Furlong to ground with his hands under the head. Stand to be corrected on that.
I expect another "no case to answer" unless there really is one rule for NZ & another for others.[/
"Hands under the head" sounds like a euphemism for contact on or around the eyes. I actually thought they should've looked at that, rather than the soft yellow for Mumm. Borderline, but it didn't even raise an eyebrow, so to speak.
It was of course within the remit of the Citing Commissioner but I thought Garces & Owens had it pegged exactly right on the day. It was illegal but not overly dangerous given it was "not dynamic". From memory only for I have not seen it again, the other Aussie involved in the lift actually brought Furlong to ground with his hands under the head. Stand to be corrected on that.
I expect another "no case to answer" unless there really is one rule for NZ & another for others.[/
"Hands under the head" sounds like a euphemism for contact on or around the eyes. I actually thought they should've looked at that, rather than the soft yellow for Mumm. Borderline, but it didn't even raise an eyebrow, so to speak.
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- BaggyTrousers
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Re: Autumn Internationals 2016
I don't think so CIMAN, not my initial thought at all, but I will take another look. Did you think it was anything but yellow? It's not quite clear though "soft" suggests you think red.
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
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Re: Autumn Internationals 2016
Missed it at the time but it appears young hendo may have a bit of devil in him. Watch Ringroses try again and you'll see him take pocock out of the game beyond the ruck. After davey retaliates with a bit of handbags, it's too late to get across to the golden child who slips through to score. What I liked best was hendo then right in pococks face letting him know he'd been had ala sexton on rog. I always knew he was a beast but nice to see him get animated now and again.
Re: Autumn Internationals 2016
They need to stop judging by the outcome and concentrate on the offence.
Eliot Daly gets a red when he clearly didn't intend to tip tackle and Mumm doesn't when he clearly did.
A tip tackle should be a red or a yellow or a penalty or whatever and apply that automatically the way a lot of infringements are dealt with.
Eliot Daly gets a red when he clearly didn't intend to tip tackle and Mumm doesn't when he clearly did.
A tip tackle should be a red or a yellow or a penalty or whatever and apply that automatically the way a lot of infringements are dealt with.
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Re: Autumn Internationals 2016
The trouble is that a tip tackle is, in itself, dependent on outcome.WeeWorld wrote:They need to stop judging by the outcome and concentrate on the offence.
Eliot Daly gets a red when he clearly didn't intend to tip tackle and Mumm doesn't when he clearly did.
A tip tackle should be a red or a yellow or a penalty or whatever and apply that automatically the way a lot of infringements are dealt with.
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Re: Autumn Internationals 2016
Catch yerslef on wee lad. What Daly did was incredibly dangerous even if we are kind and say he was incompetent rather than vicious. Anyone suggesting what Mumm did was dangerous needs to have half an hour thinking about it, half an hour thereafter staring at their fat head in the mirror and then speak to somebody at length who isn't an certified buffoon, so they can learn not to expose themselves as an arsefoon the next time.WeeWorld wrote:They need to stop judging by the outcome and concentrate on the offence.
Eliot Daly gets a red when he clearly didn't intend to tip tackle and Mumm doesn't when he clearly did.
A tip tackle should be a red or a yellow or a penalty or whatever and apply that automatically the way a lot of infringements are dealt with.
I would prefer that not only tackling in the air was outlawed, but on safety grounds only, for it is a great skill, that jumping to make a catch of a kick is outlawed. That and that alone will take out what is more often than not accidental but that whether deliberate or accidental can be incredibly dangerous.
In terms of penalties for the offence, I absolutely agree on it being decided by outcomes. Both decisions were correct.
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
Re: Autumn Internationals 2016
i don't know what you mean, lift legs above waist and don't control landing is a tip tackle whatever the outcome, isn't it?BR wrote:The trouble is that a tip tackle is, in itself, dependent on outcome.WeeWorld wrote:They need to stop judging by the outcome and concentrate on the offence.
Eliot Daly gets a red when he clearly didn't intend to tip tackle and Mumm doesn't when he clearly did.
A tip tackle should be a red or a yellow or a penalty or whatever and apply that automatically the way a lot of infringements are dealt with.
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Re: Autumn Internationals 2016
Yeah but you also agreed with a penalty only for the sam cane illegal tackle where the outcome was a player being knocked out.BaggyTrousers wrote:In terms of penalties for the offence, I absolutely agree on it being decided by outcomes. Both decisions were correct.
What I want is consistency which is what we're currently not getting and won't get until the punishment is determined by the offence rather than than the outcome or even more ludicrously, the intention.
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Re: Autumn Internationals 2016
And of course a further reason for not deciding sanctions by outcomes is that it encourages the player on the other side act the injury up.
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- BaggyTrousers
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Re: Autumn Internationals 2016
Yeah I did, so did World Rugby, we outrank you, nuff said.WeeWorld wrote:Yeah but you also agreed with a penalty only for the sam cane illegal tackle where the outcome was a player being knocked out.BaggyTrousers wrote:In terms of penalties for the offence, I absolutely agree on it being decided by outcomes. Both decisions were correct.
What I want is consistency which is what we're currently not getting and won't get until the punishment is determined by the offence rather than than the outcome or even more ludicrously, the intention.
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
Re: Autumn Internationals 2016
BaggyTrousers wrote:Yeah I did, so did World Rugby, we outrank you, nuff said.WeeWorld wrote:Yeah but you also agreed with a penalty only for the sam cane illegal tackle where the outcome was a player being knocked out.BaggyTrousers wrote:In terms of penalties for the offence, I absolutely agree on it being decided by outcomes. Both decisions were correct.
What I want is consistency which is what we're currently not getting and won't get until the punishment is determined by the offence rather than than the outcome or even more ludicrously, the intention.
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Re: Autumn Internationals 2016
This time I agree with Baggy's common sense analysis. The officials described Mumm's offence perfectly and issued an appropriate top end sanction.
I don't believe we have access to the latest guidance that referees have been issued with or conversations between Rollers and the other international referees. So our calls are not entirely informed or possibly total tripe.
I don't believe we have access to the latest guidance that referees have been issued with or conversations between Rollers and the other international referees. So our calls are not entirely informed or possibly total tripe.
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Re: Autumn Internationals 2016
No I think it deserved a penalty and maybe no more. Soft as in it was an easy option to give for a baying crowd. To me they should've looked more closely at their lock with the hands around Furlongs eye area. Might be worth switching focus to that on the playback. I've seen citings and reds for less.BaggyTrousers wrote:I don't think so CIMAN, not my initial thought at all, but I will take another look. Did you think it was anything but yellow? It's not quite clear though "soft" suggests you think red.
I'm not one for yellows and Reds unless totally necessary. Spear (not tip ) tackles with momentum and intent merit reds aka Mealamau on BOD , ditto the heinous crimes of gouging or head kicking. The rest is rugby, and in the words of the previous Saffer coach, it's not ballet, so no tutu's. Tbf, Furlong dusted him down and didn't make a fuss, like a good forward should... Just line him up for a dig later. Furlong looks the deal IMO.
Last edited by CIMANFOREVER on Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Autumn Internationals 2016
I have my own tv channel, what have you got?