Irish Unity

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How would you vote in a border poll?

Yes, to Irish Unity
17
57%
No, stay with England, Wales and Scotland
13
43%
 
Total votes: 30

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big mervyn
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Re: Irish Unity

Post by big mervyn » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:56 pm

Interesting little exercise this Jackie. Ulster rugby fans perceived by many as a garden centre unionist demographic voting 2 to 1 for unification, though Damo, who could be perceived to be a garden centre nationalist votes to stay. :lol:
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Dave
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Re: Irish Unity

Post by Dave » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:57 pm

Snipe Watson wrote:
Rooster wrote:
damianmcr wrote:Nah and mainly from a purely selfish point of view that I'm employed by the NICS. Otherwise yes.

Pre Brexit it was a definite no.
You are one of those who throw the unionist/nationalist theory touted by DUP/SF that people will vote on religious grounds yet again, they tend to forget that people will vote on the financial implications for themselves rather on what religion they just happened to be born into.
Quite correct. Irish unity as an ideal is one thing, as a reality it's entirely different and isn't going to happen any time soon because people will be better off in the UK.
The republic's economy is a basket case overly reliant on FDI. The republic's economy would be crippled by a no deal Brexit and the rest of the EU will take considerable damage too.
Therefore there will be a deal done at the last minute on 29 March. It's a high stakes game of chicken and from what I've seen the EU is twitchier than the UK. I think they'll blink first as they have more to lose and fudge is what the EU does best.
Of course the EU are hoping for an extension in the hope that the remoaners will gain some traction and force a second referendum with a different outcome. Can't see Mrs. May being soft enough to give them any breathing room so that'll not be happening either.

Of course I could be wrong. What would I know?
That's me away again, arrivederci. :salut:
Hi Snipe, welcome back.

Great to know everything will work out brill.

Any thoughts on how this wonder deal will pass through parliament?

Presumably this brill deal has no backstop because the DUP and other hardliners would not support it otherwise.
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Re: Irish Unity

Post by Dublin4 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:23 pm

Just noticed this thread and I have to say I am quite surprised by the open views to some kind of Irish unity expressed.
The debacle that Brexit is seems to be a catalyst for change.

I also think that the massive changes in the south, both economically and socially, may be having an effect on opinion in NI.
Home Rule was Rome Rule up to the late 20th century, say 1990. Now I find myself feeling sorry for the aging clergy who have lost all respect and are ignored by the populace. I don't agree at all with Snipe that the republic is a "basket case". We have full employment, public finances this year in surplus, record economic growth, no inflation, and low interest rates. We have a housing shortage caused by the rapid recovery and we have an ongoing problem with a health service that soaks up endless resources, but hey every health system has problems. We were an agricultural economy in the 20th century and you were an industrial powerhouse closely linked to GB. Staying in the UK then made perfect sense. But that's entirely changed.

What people say down here is that unity is all very well but we don't want to pay for the cost of your public services which are subsidized by London area taxpayers.

But all of this may change with Brexit as I suspect that London will not want to fork out for NI much longer.

If there were to be unity then I would have envisaged Stormont continuing etc, with an all Ireland parliament taking the Westminster role, but even that now seems to be in doubt as your politics up there seems to have regressed to a dysfunctional state. I would welcome 2 million nordies shaking up our politics.

Anyway, the discussion on here could be a straw in the wind.

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Re: Irish Unity

Post by kingofthehill » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:39 pm

Dublin4 wrote:Just noticed this thread and I have to say I am quite surprised by the open views to some kind of Irish unity expressed.
The debacle that Brexit is seems to be a catalyst for change.

I also think that the massive changes in the south, both economically and socially, may be having an effect on opinion in NI.
Home Rule was Rome Rule up to the late 20th century, say 1990. Now I find myself feeling sorry for the aging clergy who have lost all respect and are ignored by the populace. I don't agree at all with Snipe that the republic is a "basket case". We have full employment, public finances this year in surplus, record economic growth, no inflation, and low interest rates. We have a housing shortage caused by the rapid recovery and we have an ongoing problem with a health service that soaks up endless resources, but hey every health system has problems. We were an agricultural economy in the 20th century and you were an industrial powerhouse closely linked to GB. Staying in the UK then made perfect sense. But that's entirely changed.

What people say down here is that unity is all very well but we don't want to pay for the cost of your public services which are subsidized by London area taxpayers.

But all of this may change with Brexit as I suspect that London will not want to fork out for NI much longer.

If there were to be unity then I would have envisaged Stormont continuing etc, with an all Ireland parliament taking the Westminster role, but even that now seems to be in doubt as your politics up there seems to have regressed to a dysfunctional state. I would welcome 2 million nordies shaking up our politics.

Anyway, the discussion on here could be a straw in the wind.
D4....... Would there be private schools in Ulster if it was a united Ireland?



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Re: Irish Unity

Post by promenader 2 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:43 pm

namron wrote:Irish Unity ..that old chestnut. An Island never that has never been truly united from the FirBolgs to the Gaels ,Vikings ,Dalriada,Normans ,Saxons and all manner of Colour between them. A unity of hearts must occur before fiscal unity. That wont happen anytime soon, I fear unless We abandon the current political system and everyone just does as I say :lol:
How 'united' has the big island to the east been over the same period? Saxons, Romans, Normans, etc. Wars of the roses, English fighting the Scots right up through the 18th century. The fact that Ireland didn't have its own centralised government other than that imposed by the British, was not due to the fact that Ireland was any more divided than most European countries at the same time, but due to the fact that Ireland was a small country colonised by its larger neighbour. There has always been a strong majority on this island in favour of a united, independent state. If there was a vote tomorrow, I'm quite confident that this would again be apparent, and that it would be supported by a more significant majority than either the Scottish referendum or the Brexit vote were able to achieve.

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Re: Irish Unity

Post by Dublin4 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:55 pm

I thought you already had private schools up there. The likes of Campbell College seem to be suitably posh to qualify.

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big mervyn
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Re: Irish Unity

Post by big mervyn » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:07 pm

Dublin4 wrote:I thought you already had private schools up there. The likes of Campbell College seem to be suitably posh to qualify.
A voluntary grammar - mostly funded from the public purse with top up fees making up the difference.

I think the Holywood Steiner school is the only truly private secondary school in NI but it has a very small intake.
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kingofthehill
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Re: Irish Unity

Post by kingofthehill » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:12 pm

Dublin4 wrote:I thought you already had private schools up there. The likes of Campbell College seem to be suitably posh to qualify.
No conveyor belts in Ulster.


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Re: Irish Unity

Post by Cap'n Grumpy » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:19 pm

Dublin4 wrote:I thought you already had private schools up there. The likes of Campbell College seem to be suitably posh to qualify.
Already well known by those up here, but for our Mexican visitor ...

If by "posh" you mean it takes the "cream" of Ulster society into its school you would be correct.

It's the rich and thick that attend, and send their childer to Campbell.
Sadly the days of people using proper English are went

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Re: Irish Unity

Post by Dublin4 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:34 pm

We have many hundreds of privately owned secondary schools in the south with the bulk of them relying on state funding and being essentially "free" to attend.

But there are 55 privately owned schools who continue to get teachers paid for by the state but top up their income by charging fees of €6,000 or so each year. These schools are heavily concentrated in south Dublin and Cork, with a handful of them being boarding schools. They have facilities that the free schools can only dream about.

They are the "private schools" commonly referred to that, in the case of boys, generate the so=called conveyor belt of Leinster rugby. It is simply impossible for a non fee paying school to compete in schools rugby with these schools as the results show.

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Re: Irish Unity

Post by big mervyn » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:56 pm

Dublin4 wrote:We have many hundreds of privately owned secondary schools in the south with the bulk of them relying on state funding and being essentially "free" to attend.

But there are 55 privately owned schools who continue to get teachers paid for by the state but top up their income by charging fees of €6,000 or so each year. These schools are heavily concentrated in south Dublin and Cork, with a handful of them being boarding schools. They have facilities that the free schools can only dream about.

They are the "private schools" commonly referred to that, in the case of boys, generate the so=called conveyor belt of Leinster rugby. It is simply impossible for a non fee paying school to compete in schools rugby with these schools as the results show.
Campbell are the only large grammar that would come close to that. Parents of day pupils are expected to contribute about £2,800 per annum. The parental contributions for Methodist College and Inst are considerably less. <£1k I think.
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solidarity
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Re: Irish Unity

Post by solidarity » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:01 pm

I think the only truly private mainline private school is Rockport, at Seahill. Alma mater of Paddy Wallace (although in those days they didn't go all the way up to A levels, so he then went elsewhere. Campbell?)

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Re: Irish Unity

Post by Dave » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:08 pm

Did Mike McComish go to Campbell as well?

#productionline
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Re: Irish Unity

Post by UlsterNo9 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:11 pm

Dave wrote:Did Mike McComish go to Campbell as well?

#productionline
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Re: Irish Unity

Post by kingofthehill » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 pm

Dave wrote:Did Mike McComish go to Campbell as well?

#productionline
The chant from his schools cup final.

‘Give me a D,
Give me an E.
That’s what Mike McComish got at GCSE’


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