A little bit of politics folks`

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rumncoke
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Re: A little bit of politics folks`

Post by rumncoke » Thu May 30, 2019 11:25 am

Solid --That system only works if applied as an individual . if everybody voted that way we be landed with somebody nobody wanted. voting 1st preference at least you get somebody only about 55% may not want since no candidate every receives more than about 45 % of the votes of the electorate.

The candidate never considers those who failed to vote for him when considering the result only that he got more than the other candidates individually.

Shan -- maybe some in your neck of the woods are starting to realise the biggest obstacle to Irish Unity is now SF previously it may have been seen as the Catholic Church but the population since Joining the EU have gone 'Continental" a similiar process to Spain and the "Church " has lost the control it would have exercised in the past.

From a Northern prospective the "Church" would not be seen now as "the Monster in the bed " justifying the claim of a "Protestant Parliament for a Protestant People " -- The "Unionist" population ,as I believe most of the population of NI would vote for the Union on an economic basis rather than religious, recognising that the economic power of these Islands and the countries they contain NI ,Scotland, and Wales rely on the economy of England for their standard of living and not the rest of Europe.
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Shan
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Re: A little bit of politics folks`

Post by Shan » Thu May 30, 2019 2:50 pm

Rum, maybe a lot of people in my neck of the woods couldn't give a sh2te about Irish political unity. Indeed in my own circle you almost never hear people mention it. I think there's many folk who are just happy to see 'the north' relatively stable.
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Re: A little bit of politics folks`

Post by big mervyn » Thu May 30, 2019 3:39 pm

Chancellor Phillip Hammond's backing a no confidence vote against the next PM before he/she has even been elected. Brilliant :lol: :lol:
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pwrmoore
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Re: A little bit of politics folks`

Post by pwrmoore » Thu May 30, 2019 4:06 pm

rumncoke wrote:
From a Northern prospective the "Church" would not be seen now as "the Monster in the bed " justifying the claim of a "Protestant Parliament for a Protestant People " -- The "Unionist" population ,as I believe most of the population of NI would vote for the Union on an economic basis rather than religious, recognising that the economic power of these Islands and the countries they contain NI ,Scotland, and Wales rely on the economy of England for their standard of living and not the rest of Europe.
I can't claim that "most" would vote one way or another but I'd be amazed if there aren't a lot of what used to be regarded as the unionist population who like myself are so hacked off with the selfish little-Englander brexiteers who seem determined to leave the EU whatever the cost to the country and the economy that we'd be more than happy to vote for a re-united Ireland within the EU. And while you may view that we are more dependent on the state of the English economy than on the "rest of Europe" there's a hell of a lot of dependence on cross-border trade within Ireland too.

To me the most worrying thing about voting for a united Ireland would be that the Gerry and his mates would see it as "their victory" and as a vindication of their terrorism. Whereas the truth is that it would have more to do with the modernization of the RoI combined with the perceived attitude of a significant proportion of England to the rest of the UK
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Re: A little bit of politics folks`

Post by TMHG » Thu May 30, 2019 4:33 pm

rum - I think the biggest obstacle to a UI from a ROI perspective is a) the cost and b) the likelihood of violence starting up again. In a recent Red C poll on a UI down here (3,000 interviewed), it was 65% in favour, 19% against, 15% don't knows/refused.

Every political party down here supports a UI, so the only thing left to argue over is how and when. I wouldn't write off Sinn Fein completely. There seems to be huge fragmentation into independents down here (Claire Daly in Dublin and Mick Wallace in the South) which would have had a major impact on the Sinn Fein vote. Shan, just remember when it comes to a Gen. Election, Daly and Wallace's seats will be up for grabs between People Before Profit, Sinn Fein and Labour).

rumncoke
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Re: A little bit of politics folks`

Post by rumncoke » Thu May 30, 2019 8:50 pm

PW
The remain vote is not that unexpected since Ulster is basically a farming community—

The farming community is the one which has the cloudiest future with Brexit and relies on easy cross border movement .

The RoI due the fact it uses a Central European Currency which is fine for The Benelux / Germanic States .But it is not suitable of those States outside that central area is tied to the EU praying the Pound does not improve and interest rates remain Low .

Thus a Brexit / Remain vote split is an unreliable indication of how a United Ireland vote would go when in Northern Ireland people know and vote for what they don’t want — thus a higher remain vote than Brexit in NI .



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Shan
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Re: A little bit of politics folks`

Post by Shan » Fri May 31, 2019 1:54 am

TMHG wrote:
Every political party down here supports a UI, so the only thing left to argue is how and when.
In theory yeah. In practice they care about a UI as much as I do..........If it happens I won't protest but I don't care about it. I don't have to pretend, unlike some clownish politicos or some 'patriotic' d1ckheads.
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pwrmoore
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Re: A little bit of politics folks`

Post by pwrmoore » Fri May 31, 2019 8:19 am

rumncoke wrote:PW
The remain vote is not that unexpected since Ulster is basically a farming community—

The farming community is the one which has the cloudiest future with Brexit and relies on easy cross border movement .

The RoI due the fact it uses a Central European Currency which is fine for The Benelux / Germanic States .But it is not suitable of those States outside that central area is tied to the EU praying the Pound does not improve and interest rates remain Low .

Thus a Brexit / Remain vote split is an unreliable indication of how a United Ireland vote would go when in Northern Ireland people know and vote for what they don’t want — thus a higher remain vote than Brexit in NI .

:scratch: :scratch: :scratch:

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The 2011 Census of Agriculture counted 29,143 farmers: 15,823 were full-time and 13,320 part-time. They are supported by 6,263 spouses and 11,442 other farm workers: 3,249 full-time, 3,436 part-time and 4,757 casual or seasonal. Northern Ireland’s agricultural workforce therefore totalled 46,848 people, down from 48,031 in 2009.
there were a hell of a lot more than 46,848 that voted for remain. (p.s. I'm not a farmer)

BTW I never said I could claim to predict how most people would vote - unlike you. I was just pointing out that to assume that most voters in the perceived unionist community would automatically vote for the status quo may be a mistake
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Jackie Brown
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Re: A little bit of politics folks`

Post by Jackie Brown » Fri May 31, 2019 8:45 am

I always hear farmers towing the DUP line. I doubt they are all Remainers some how.

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Re: A little bit of politics folks`

Post by Setanta » Fri May 31, 2019 9:27 am

There are eedjits in every profession.
From the rolling glens of Antrim through the hills of Donegal we will stand and shout for Ulster as we win both scrum and maul from the lovely lakes of Fermanagh tae the shores of ould Lough Gall we will scream and shout for Ulster as we beat them one and all!

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Re: A little bit of politics folks`

Post by promenader 2 » Fri May 31, 2019 11:21 am

pwrmoore wrote:
rumncoke wrote:
From a Northern prospective the "Church" would not be seen now as "the Monster in the bed " justifying the claim of a "Protestant Parliament for a Protestant People " -- The "Unionist" population ,as I believe most of the population of NI would vote for the Union on an economic basis rather than religious, recognising that the economic power of these Islands and the countries they contain NI ,Scotland, and Wales rely on the economy of England for their standard of living and not the rest of Europe.
I can't claim that "most" would vote one way or another but I'd be amazed if there aren't a lot of what used to be regarded as the unionist population who like myself are so hacked off with the selfish little-Englander brexiteers who seem determined to leave the EU whatever the cost to the country and the economy that we'd be more than happy to vote for a re-united Ireland within the EU. And while you may view that we are more dependent on the state of the English economy than on the "rest of Europe" there's a hell of a lot of dependence on cross-border trade within Ireland too.

To me the most worrying thing about voting for a united Ireland would be that the Gerry and his mates would see it as "their victory" and as a vindication of their terrorism. Whereas the truth is that it would have more to do with the modernization of the RoI combined with the perceived attitude of a significant proportion of England to the rest of the UK
Unity will come about despite the best efforts of SF rather than because of them. It will happen when the political establishment in the republic decides that it is in their best efforts to be part of an all island economy within Europe, possibly on the back of a hard Brexit. Their pitch will be made to northern nationalists (natch), but more importantly to liberal unionists in the north, those people who enjoyed being part of the EU and who are at home with the more liberal social values which have taken root in the republic. These liberal unionists will then have a decision to make. A few years ago, most would have instinctively opted to stay in the UK. These days, the choice is not so clear cut. The rise of the far right has turned the UK into a fractured, spiteful place. Brexit could well make it a much poorer one too. Interesting times.

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Dave
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Re: A little bit of politics folks`

Post by Dave » Fri May 31, 2019 11:27 am

Jackie Brown wrote:I always hear farmers towing the DUP line. I doubt they are all Remainers some how.

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Re: A little bit of politics folks`

Post by Rooster » Fri May 31, 2019 12:16 pm

Dave wrote:
Jackie Brown wrote:I always hear farmers towing the DUP line. I doubt they are all Remainers some how.

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Turkeys voting for Xmas.
DUP had some brainwashed into better out as less paperwork and regulations plus free to sell stuff anywhere, it was all lies.
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Re: A little bit of politics folks`

Post by Rooster » Fri May 31, 2019 12:19 pm

rumncoke wrote:it depends how you consider it.

Like a shop say Tesco,s would take in say £3M a day (which could be an average figure with £ 1/2 on Monday and £7M on Saturday) and do not deduct the cost of sales when quoting the figure.

Ie takings are store by store but expenses are paid by head office.

ie Boris could be quoting the gross contribution to the EU not the net. Which is a perfectly legitimate way to state something when both figures are not actually daily amounts and there are substantial timing differences between payment and receipt of money's from the EU.

Revenue receipts from Vat may be frequent and Timely returned to the EU but CAPand other receiptsfrom the EU may be received annually in arrears.
The £350 million does not correspond to either the net figure or the total expenditure, in fact it only corresponds to the figure on the bus
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Re: A little bit of politics folks`

Post by Cap'n Grumpy » Fri May 31, 2019 6:48 pm

Rooster wrote:The £350 million does not correspond to either the net figure or the total expenditure, in fact it only corresponds to the figure on the bus
If it was on the bus, it must be true then.

I saw it in the papers, so definitely true then! :cheers:
Sadly the days of people using proper English are went

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