The Greatest

[Snipe Watson]

Was he the greatest boxer? Possibly not.
Was he the greatest man ever to box? beyond question.
Was he the greatest? Darn sure he was.

[Cap'n Grumpy]

Looks like he was an Irishman: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36452554

A Clareman.

We tend to take little things like being the greatest in our stride. It's just part of the normality of life for us.

WE take things like being the greatest in our stride?

Wash your (metaphorical) mouth out Shan - there IS, and only ever will be, one "greatest", and the world is a poorer place today for his passing.

Great man that you are, you're not in his league - sorry mate!

BTW - as Baggy points out, it wasn't Clay that cheated Our 'Enery, it was Dundee, but if you check the footage, it really only bought him a few seconds and almost certainly didn''t affect the result, despite Cooper's exaggerations over the years.

[solidarity]

Looks like he was an Irishman: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36452554

A Clareman.

We tend to take little things like being the greatest in our stride. It's just part of the normality of life for us.

[bazzaj]

Greatest boxer I would say yes as he was untouchable up until his draft dodge which even robbed us of his best years.
For that alone he could be considered the greatest.

He then came back from years out in his prime to defeat 2 other all time greats.
No one else could have done that from any era.
He realised he had lost his leg speed so reinvented his style to do so.

And to win it back again against Spinks was incredible by itself when he clearly wasn't himself.

I always think the difference between the best and the rest is they redefine the way the sport is played.
Ali basically went into a ring primarily not to get hit rather than hit.
Then he invented rope a dope v Foreman which meant you did nothing but be hit!
He invented or brought in trash talk as a psychological weapon.

In particular rope a dope tactics were totally at odds with what everyone else was advising or telling him at the time.
That takes minerals and strength of conviction that no one else would have done and was reflected in his life outside of the ring.
Some of his tactics became etched in the coaching psyche in all sports.

When people discuss the greatest boxers I think they like to say someone else to make themselves more knowledgeable by saying someone else rather than the most obvious.
It slightly irks me to be honest.

Ray Robinson is another great who springs to mind who was a major influence on Ali.
Willie Pepp just on his record alone deserves an honourable mention along with Rocky M.
Great but unlike Burt Sugar- no cigar.

[big mervyn]

Greatest boxer I would say yes as he was untouchable up until his draft dodge which even robbed us of his best years.
.

Bad choice of words Jizzer.

George Bush Jnr dodged the draft.

Ali refused to serve on a point of principle.

Big difference.

[BaggyTrousers]

It should not be forgotten that when he started, there was massive racial prejudice in the USA, in 1960 when he won the Olympic gold it was only 5 years since Rosa Parks had failed to give up a seat that she was legally entitled to be in, notwithstanding the outrage of segregation, not being in the 10 seats reserved for whites. Ali threw that medal in the river when he encountered racism on his return from Rome.

There were no highly placed black people in sport, there had never been a black quarterback in football for instance, black men could participate at the US Masters........ if they carried a white man's bag, they certainly could not be members of the club.

Ali's place in boxing is irrelevant, it's what he did for those he described as "my people" that is his legacy, his refusal to fight a war against people who "have never called me a nigger", his absolute assertion that not only was he as good as any other man but actually better.

I didn't like the fact that he espoused racial segregation & would not for instance have approved a daughter marrying a white man, but overall you take a person in the round & he was hugely important in making a path for other black athletes in many sports. He was much bigger than his sport, the world knew him and revered him ....... okay maybe not the KKK but almost everyone else.

[BaggyTrousers]

Greatest boxer I would say yes as he was untouchable up until his draft dodge which even robbed us of his best years.
.

Bad choice of words Jizzer.

George Bush Jnr dodged the draft.

Ali refused to serve on a point of principle.

Big difference.

[bazzaj]

Fair point and was tempted to edit it when I read it back as I knew someone would pick me up on it.Was ideally wanting to dwell purely on his boxing achievements rather than his political stances.

For the record Bush also refused the draft on principles which were that he was a cowardly hypocrite.
The difference was that Alis principles were of a higher moral value to most, particularly with hindsight.

At the time white America in particular would have seen him as no different to Bush's 'dodge'.
Which is generally why I left the term dodge in my original post.
What I should have done was left the term dodge in quotes.

[shamalicious]

Ali was in his prime well before I was born so I have only ever seen interviews with the great man, and also that frail man who appeared at the 2012 Olympics. Parkinson's was arguably his greatest battle having had it for 3 decades of his life. A wonderful humanitarian who made a massive impact on the civil rights movement in America, and one of those special people who you think would live forever. RIP The Greatest.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

[bazzaj]

I disagree with Baggys dismissive assertion that Alis place in boxing was irrelevant.
He was all things to all people and love him or loathe him you couldn't ignore him.
I personally loved his charisma in and out of the ring regarding boxing but the moment he started sounding off about religion I generally switched off despite admiring some of his political stances

That's just me though but I will say that his Parkinson interviews aren't generally remembered affectionately for his preaching about Islam.
More about the boxing and his razor sharp wit.

[BaggyTrousers]

I see that great friend to Muslims, Hairpiece Tramp is waxing lyrical about Ali, whilst remaining uncertain as to whether he would have let Ali back into Merca if he had travelled to his ancestral home in Ennis. Up the Banner.

[Snipe Watson]

The best boxer I have ever seen, in my lifetime was Sugar Ray Leonard, although Marvin Hagler was my favourite at the time.
Along with Roberto Duran, Thomas Hearns and Marvin Hagler formed the golden era for boxing.

Ali, Frazer, Norton and Foreman were fantastic for their time and Ali was the first real athlete in the heavyweight division. His speed, power and granite chin moved the sport to a different dimension. However, Mike Tyson in his pomp would have bludgeoned Ali in minutes.

Ali's greatness has as much to do with his character and quality as a man as it had to do with his sport.

[bazzaj]

Ha now you are talking!
All I will say is this Snipe.
Name one fighter Tyson fought who had genuine class and fighting in their prime?
Holmes and Spinks were well past their sell by.

To answer the 2 class fighters he took on in his career were Lewis and Holyfield who dismantled him.
Also Smith and Tucker (scarcely legends) took Tyson the distance in his pomp whilst he was trying to knock them out.
We could safely assume that Ali could easily at least matched that.

Tyson went out to maim his opponents no matter how out of their depth they were he admitted he wanted to kill them regardless..
Ali could have done but didn't as he stated he wished his opponents no harm which is why he didn't go for knockouts over stoppages or points.

That's the difference in true class.

[big mervyn]

George Foreman in '74 was viewed in a similar way to Tyson - meanest baddest man on the planet. Ali still found a way to beat him despite being well past his prime.

[BaggyTrousers]

The best boxer I have ever seen, in my lifetime was Sugar Ray Leonard, although Marvin Hagler was my favourite at the time.
Along with Roberto Duran, Thomas Hearns and Marvin Hagler formed the golden era for boxing.

Ali, Frazer, Norton and Foreman were fantastic for their time and Ali was the first real athlete in the heavyweight division. His speed, power and granite chin moved the sport to a different dimension. However, Mike Tyson in his pomp would have bludgeoned Ali in minutes.

Ali's greatness has as much to do with his character and quality as a man as it had to do with his sport.

It appears you lack knowledge of the subject. Though I fully support your last line, something poor Jizzer overlooked when suggesting I "dismissed" the boxing..