Irish Unity

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How would you vote in a border poll?

Yes, to Irish Unity
17
57%
No, stay with England, Wales and Scotland
13
43%
 
Total votes: 30

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Dave
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Re: Irish Unity

Post by Dave » Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:50 am

Dublin4 wrote:Just reading the opinion poll this morning on the very strong anti Brexit feelings among Northern Ireland voters.
67% against Brexit and hardly anyone seems to want a hard Brexit.

So educate me, how is the DUP so offside on this one? Don't they have any farmers or business people supporting them?
Why have they gone out on such a limb?
All they seem to be achieving is the weakening of the union.
Yeah but don't tell them. At their core they are ultra conservative right-wing loons. So brexit is right up their street. Their own idiocy will destroy the thing they love so dear. They only had about 1000 votes more than SF in the last stormont election. Their support is waining.

The local business community seem deeply unhappy with their attitude. The DUP response to any concerns they raise is to tell them they are wrong. I really don't know what kind of individual would be driven to vote for such an incompetent rabble but that's NI politics.
I have my own tv channel, what have you got?

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Cap'n Grumpy
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Re: Irish Unity

Post by Cap'n Grumpy » Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:53 am

pwrmoore wrote: Best I can come up with is that Sinn Fein supported remain so the DUP have to support Brexit as their automatic position is to be the opposite of SF. >flog >flog >flog
That too pwm, it was always thus. :roll:

And the reverse.

Still would suggest that for the poll to be taken seriously, they should publish the question(s) asked. I have read some of them, but not the one(s) pertaining to their headline figures. Polls, as you well know, can be influenced by the actual questions asked and how it is asked.

Anyway, tomorrows chip paper (not literally anymore though).
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Cap'n Grumpy
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Re: Irish Unity

Post by Cap'n Grumpy » Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:02 pm

promenader 2 wrote:Why wouldn't we all be better off financially?
I don't know the answer to that, but it is much more than simply the business community etc would perform differently and other countries or EU would pump money in.

When it comes down to the nitty gritty, people tend to vote according to how it will affect themselves, not the community or the country.

Even if the country might prosper, a lot of people wont vote for that if their own personal tax is going to increase, if they are going to have to pay for or take out health insurance etc. (other considerations are available)

I am not aware of the arrangements south of the border, but it is information and disinformation like that which will influence how people vote.

Does anyone know of any honest politicians who will tell them the truth about exactly how a change in status will affect each person in the pocket?

No, I thought not ...
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Re: Irish Unity

Post by promenader 2 » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:53 pm

Cap'n Grumpy wrote:
promenader 2 wrote:Why wouldn't we all be better off financially?
I don't know the answer to that, but it is much more than simply the business community etc would perform differently and other countries or EU would pump money in.

When it comes down to the nitty gritty, people tend to vote according to how it will affect themselves, not the community or the country.

Even if the country might prosper, a lot of people wont vote for that if their own personal tax is going to increase, if they are going to have to pay for or take out health insurance etc. (other considerations are available)

I am not aware of the arrangements south of the border, but it is information and disinformation like that which will influence how people vote.

Does anyone know of any honest politicians who will tell them the truth about exactly how a change in status will affect each person in the pocket?

No, I thought not ...
When it comes to the bit, some people will vote for a UI even if it means they have to live in a ditch and eat food picked from bins, so long as they get to wrap themselves in a tricolour. There are folk who kick with the other foot who would do likewise, except that their cloth of choice will be the union fleg. In between will be the rest of us who, as you say Cap'n, will vote one way or t'other according to the difference the choice makes to our disposable income. What we need are a few independent, authoritative financial studies of the situation, ones that will leave aside the identity issues and politics, and simply focus on what unity would mean for the pound / euro in the pocket of the average citizen.

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Cap'n Grumpy
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Re: Irish Unity

Post by Cap'n Grumpy » Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:28 pm

promenader 2 wrote:
Cap'n Grumpy wrote:
promenader 2 wrote:Why wouldn't we all be better off financially?
I don't know the answer to that, but it is much more than simply the business community etc would perform differently and other countries or EU would pump money in.

When it comes down to the nitty gritty, people tend to vote according to how it will affect themselves, not the community or the country.

Even if the country might prosper, a lot of people wont vote for that if their own personal tax is going to increase, if they are going to have to pay for or take out health insurance etc. (other considerations are available)

I am not aware of the arrangements south of the border, but it is information and disinformation like that which will influence how people vote.

Does anyone know of any honest politicians who will tell them the truth about exactly how a change in status will affect each person in the pocket?

No, I thought not ...
When it comes to the bit, some people will vote for a UI even if it means they have to live in a ditch and eat food picked from bins, so long as they get to wrap themselves in a tricolour. There are folk who kick with the other foot who would do likewise, except that their cloth of choice will be the union fleg. In between will be the rest of us who, as you say Cap'n, will vote one way or t'other according to the difference the choice makes to our disposable income. What we need are a few independent, authoritative financial studies of the situation, ones that will leave aside the identity issues and politics, and simply focus on what unity would mean for the pound / euro in the pocket of the average citizen.
Agreed, which is why I said "tend to"

Admittedly that "tend to" is usually more applicable in other countries including other parts of the UK, and we tend to have more people who want to wrap themselves in a fleg of a certain type.

All the same, in other countries there are similar trends. For example, there are areas of Engerland where to admit to voting anything other than Labour (for example) and certainly voting Tory, could have one disowned by the family that has voted that way for generations. Other examples are available.
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Irish Unity

Post by rumncoke » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:16 pm

The problem for the South is that the funding it once qualified for may be a thing of the past due the inclusion of Eastern European States . Similarly the funds will be reduced by the withdrawal of GB .

There are several factors effecting the financial decision to Irish unity — the cost of living - health service - the numbers reliant on benefits and the number of public servants in the North of Ireland past and present paid from the public purse .

I don’t see the EU coming to fund it and Greece is an economic basket case trying to fund public employees past and present .

And the problem with the EU is it is an undemocratic political elite of over 20 States with so many vested interests nobody can agree to anything without the matter agreed being detrimental to some States’ interest .

Thus the idea that the EU can be a balance between the USA and Russia is a daydream because it can never unite or integrate .

Europe is becoming a sponge for poor of Africa at a time when the economies of Europe are a declining in terms of the numbers employed per industry or the industries are being transfered to Asia where costs etc make businesses ,which are reliant on larger labour forces , more profitable.

While open Boarders may have been attractive I sense that a change of mind is spreading fast .

Free trade is one thing ... people are something different and that has nothing to do with race ,colour , or religion but the basic fact that resources are limited and the more people drawing on those resources limits the amount each will get .

The young may dream, but old have to face facts -the fool may vote from the heart the wise will use their head .







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Last edited by rumncoke on Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Irish Unity

Post by big mervyn » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:23 pm

rumncoke wrote:The problem for the South is that the funding it once qualified for may be a thing of the past due the inclusion of Eastern European States .




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Jackie Brown
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Re: Irish Unity

Post by Jackie Brown » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:37 pm

I would vote for a UI even if it cost me in the pocket. It would be worth it to be rid of the Conservatives and see the DUP squirm

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Re: Irish Unity

Post by nonplussed » Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:48 pm

Jackie Brown wrote:I would vote for a UI even if it cost me in the pocket. It would be worth it to be rid of the Conservatives and see the DUP squirm

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100% agree

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Re: Irish Unity

Post by Dublin4 » Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:54 pm

It's years since the Republic of Ireland was a net recipient from the EU.
Our niche is getting foreign direct investment and trading with the EU by running a 12% Corporation Tax regime. That's why Dublin is stuffed with the tech companies, for example.

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Re: Irish Unity

Post by Pimpmac » Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:08 pm

big mervyn wrote:
rumncoke wrote:The problem for the South is that the funding it once qualified for may be a thing of the past due the inclusion of Eastern European States .




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Ireland has been a net contributer to the EU for 5 years.
Not sure where you’re getting your figures from Merv. Anything I have ever seen has indicated that Ireland is not a net contributor. Between 2006 and 2016 the ROI had some €5 billion net extra given to it than it contributed. Only in 2009 did it contribute more than received and that was the vast sum of €48m. In fairness I haven’t seen the figures for 2017 or 2018 but I don’t believe that they were net contributors then either.... :scratch:

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Re: Irish Unity

Post by solidarity » Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:03 pm

If NI have about 3% of MPs at Westminster, we would have a much higher percentage in a UI. We would have a much bigger influence in the corridors of power, therefore much more control over our own lives. On the other hand, the Shinners and the Dupers would probably vote against each other on pretty much every issue so would cancel each other out. Or would they actually vote the same way if it was Ulster agin the rest? Funny old world.

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Re: Irish Unity

Post by Cap'n Grumpy » Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:16 pm

solidarity wrote:... the Shinners and the Dupers would probably vote against each other on pretty much every issue so would cancel each other out. Or would they actually vote the same way if it was Ulster agin the rest? Funny old world.
Not funny at all ... yer just being ridiculous if you think that's even a remote possibility. :roll:
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Re: Irish Unity

Post by moyletra » Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:17 pm

Republic of Ireland has been a allegdedly net contributor because UK bailed them out from; 2008?

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Re: Irish Unity

Post by rumncoke » Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:19 pm

In terms of the overall budget of the EU the contribution of Ireland might pay a weeks wages .

And in terms of the period which has been a member it undoubtably has received much more from the EU than it has contributed which is exactly the point I was making — membership of the EU has been in the past highly beneficial for Ireland and improved its economy substantially during that time , but the jobs created depended on that funding . Other jobs came from the fact it shared a common language with the USA and GB and was a gateway to the EU and the overheads in Dublin are substantially lower than London .

With the withdrawal of GB that job growth might lessen .

51% of Irish exports are to the EU ( include GB) what % passes though GB would be substantial.

So the fact remains Ireland is still highly dependent on GB for the movement of goods . The Irish have always in the past had preferential access to GB , only the Irish can actually impose a change in that





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