Fuzzy,
you want your stretched out 6N weekend watching from your sofa with tinnies, but what about the likes of us who pay money to go to the matches and want our traditional socialising around them?
We are getting fed up with it. People are beginning to say it's not the same anymore, just to be used as a scenic backdrop for telly viewers.
On the match, I think we are missing BOD big time as a sort of fill in 7.
Our tactics were woeful. We can't play three ball carriers again in the backrow.
Ireland v Wales
Moderator: Moderators
Re: Ireland v Wales
the guys a complete Brennan!!! for doing it,but Donnacha Ryan on Adam Jones before Bradley Davies' tip tackle. Bakkies Botha broke Adam's shoulder charging in like that.since they got rid of rucking with feet we see more actual or more potential for SERIOUS injury and worse. The only option these guys have IS to fly in against static men.The law states you must bind before you drive, really is as simple as that, and refs need to start applying this law to prevent this type of thing.still wrong though and that would be the end of his 6 nations.Which may add has been said by most of the daffodil pluckersBIGBADDON wrote:Does anyone know where I could find footage of the Bradley Davis tackle, the daffodil pluckers don't seem too keen to show it. Pity Mr Pierson hadn't the gumption to make a Mr Roland decision.
i love munching Leeks....
Re: Ireland v Wales
BaggyTrousers wrote:Rightly a lot of praise for Gatland but a coach is only as good as his pool of players, we are threadbare in several positions and Gatland is looking like a genius.
wish it could rub off on our bloody regions
Lets just remember he is just an older possibly wiser version of the Warren Gatland who lost both a Grand Slam & his job by picking Guy Easterby to play 9 against Scotland in 2001 - if you can't remember Guy is the useless Easterby brother who makes Simon look a world beater.
Coaches get praised when things go well and hammered when they don't.
Anybody with notions that it is only a selection problem for Ireland isn't paying attention, Paris could be a blood bath & Deccie will be facing ever stronger cries for his head on a platter. Currently not a shred of evidence to use in his defence.
My dears we are on the slide and the evidence was there yesterday almost masked by an undeserved win that would have masked reality for a little while longer.
BOD is some player, POC is some player. When they are gone , so are Ireland, we have some very very decent players but no other great players.
For any with confusion about how the HC goes so well but Ireland are mediocre, its very simple. Leinster have a strong squad of very decent players plus a couple of excellent NIQs, Munster still have a depth of very decent players with some crucial NIQs & we know all about Ulster without our NIQs this season. Without the spark of the NIQs there simply aren't enough top class players to make Ireland good enough, much as we will be good enough for Italy Scotland & probably England.
Not a very appealing future, need genuine quality to emerge from somewhere. Said it before the RWC, hard times and troubles ahead.
i love munching Leeks....
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bazzaj
Re: Ireland v Wales
All this makes me wonder if we were a missed penalty away from a "told you Deckie was brill" thread.
All about the small margins at that level as they say.
Another example was Murray kicking away turn over ball out on the full in their half, a cardinal sin in rugby on both counts.
From memory 2 plays later they score, when we should have been pressurising their line.
Can anyone explain explain why we were box kicking to North who was a the one player we wanted to keep out of the game?
Idiotic really.
Did not think we were as shocking as people were making out as it was a great game of high intensity where each mistake was magnified and exploited due to the high quality of the teams on view.
Just compare it to the tradionally woeful England Scotland game the previous day.
What worries me about DK is that we do not seem to evolve as a team in any shape or form.
He just seems happy to say same again boys to the same players until injury forces his hand.
People have mentioned about the lack of depth and experience we have but you can only develop that within the international squad.
Wales have better depth as Gatland has taken the opportunity over the years to develop and blood players wherever possible where DK has not and now we pay the price.
Have been saying about the back row balance till I am blue in the face but people calling for O`Brien to be dropped are missing the point.
He is a 6 or 8 and it would have been no different if Fez or Heaslip had have played 7.
Anyone unsure of this, watch a reply of last years HEC final.
The difference in the first half was SOB was playing 7 and in the 2nd half he was switched to 6 with Jennings coming on at 7.
Therefore a specialist 7 was on and SOB was in a ball carrying position which he did with great effect and completely changed the game.
Which leads me neatly to my final point.
If DK was prepared to name Jennings on the bench I assumed it was because he was prepared to start with the big 3 and bring him on if we were struggling in that area again.
Of course this happened and he remained on the bench.
Why pick him there then if he had no intention of playing him as opposed to Henry who can cover all 3 positions and has more of a future within the set up you would think?
Baffling.
All about the small margins at that level as they say.
Another example was Murray kicking away turn over ball out on the full in their half, a cardinal sin in rugby on both counts.
From memory 2 plays later they score, when we should have been pressurising their line.
Can anyone explain explain why we were box kicking to North who was a the one player we wanted to keep out of the game?
Idiotic really.
Did not think we were as shocking as people were making out as it was a great game of high intensity where each mistake was magnified and exploited due to the high quality of the teams on view.
Just compare it to the tradionally woeful England Scotland game the previous day.
What worries me about DK is that we do not seem to evolve as a team in any shape or form.
He just seems happy to say same again boys to the same players until injury forces his hand.
People have mentioned about the lack of depth and experience we have but you can only develop that within the international squad.
Wales have better depth as Gatland has taken the opportunity over the years to develop and blood players wherever possible where DK has not and now we pay the price.
Have been saying about the back row balance till I am blue in the face but people calling for O`Brien to be dropped are missing the point.
He is a 6 or 8 and it would have been no different if Fez or Heaslip had have played 7.
Anyone unsure of this, watch a reply of last years HEC final.
The difference in the first half was SOB was playing 7 and in the 2nd half he was switched to 6 with Jennings coming on at 7.
Therefore a specialist 7 was on and SOB was in a ball carrying position which he did with great effect and completely changed the game.
Which leads me neatly to my final point.
If DK was prepared to name Jennings on the bench I assumed it was because he was prepared to start with the big 3 and bring him on if we were struggling in that area again.
Of course this happened and he remained on the bench.
Why pick him there then if he had no intention of playing him as opposed to Henry who can cover all 3 positions and has more of a future within the set up you would think?
Baffling.
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CIMANFOREVER
- Lord Chancellor
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Re: Ireland v Wales
The precipice beckons. We are looking at 4th at best. I believe we'll go down at Twickers.....
The lack of nous, power and muscularity between the Irish & Welsh backs was glaring.
Ditto many of the forwards even though Wales were missing some front liners such as Jenkins, Rees, Charteris and Lydiate. Another strong Welsh prop appears from nowhere- Gill was no mug, and had Ross in all sorts of trouble. Wither the same for Ireland. Is it co-incidental he plays in the Aviva?...
Beneath Ross- who? Nada? Not TC, defo not Buckley! Ireland need to start blooding T/H's asap at provincial level- 10 mins here and there for Archer (destroyed by Mullan for the Saxons, as he was against Ulster) and Macklin is not good enough. Afoa and Botha need rested for the lesser RABO's, and these guys given a run to develop. Its poor that a viable alternative may be Andress, who at least is starting in the Aviva, a strong scrummaging arena, if not much else.
Ireland had no one to match Bradley Davies- not even POC. Wales will be even better with Wyn Jones and Charteris available again. Again, who do Ireland have to match that Quartet?
DOC has gone- time to ship in players selected as first choice for their province- Ryan and Tuohy. Tuohy adds muscularity that Ryan does not, and is a banker at 2, flat ball, strong in the loose, and another carrier.
Enough has been said ref. the backrow balance- I believe the unit as a whole has been found out. Too one dimensional and predictable. And whisper it softly- my biggest disappontment was 1F. Sometimes he's marked absent in the big games; I felt yesterday was one of them. Ironically, he was my pick of the backrow in NZ vs Wales. But for a player touted by many as the best 6 in the world? Really- better than Bonnaire, Kaino, Ryan Jones, Smith/ Spies ffs? Big 1F just aint consistent enough. (And the penalty was harsh, but not clever imo- so no judgement on that..) What he does have, and its never really exploited, is great hands- some of his offloads yesterday are a level above SOB.
The backrow will probably stay the same given the lack of alternatives (unless Wallace returns,) and lack of international experience. Henry does the job at Rabo/Heiny level, but I would fear for his reputation as a starting 7.
If Wallace was back, either 1F or SOB would be benched as impact players. Harsh but true- a backrows reputation cannot be judged on duffing Oz alone.
Frustratingly, no mauls to talk of yesterday, which I felt could've mixed it up with Wales. And one purple patch of a sequnce of roughly 4 pick and drives in broken field was exquisite- was it repeated?- no- back to the single carrier bashing up the middle.
Ireland really aren't clever- both via the management, who should be sorting these things at h/time, and players on the pitch- there is enough experience there to have taken that game by the b*lls, and continued with the simple stuff that worked. The above highlights that lack of thinking in the furnace that could've made a difference.
I'll let the girls squabble over the make up of the backs, although Bowe should maybe get a run in the centre- he did it well enough for the Lions. Move McFadden or Earls to the wing. Not sure there is a ready made alternative to D'Arcy without pulling the house down. But the paucity of quality ball and genuine line breaks yesterday should force the issue of change imo. The contrast with Wales was stark. Agree regarding Nevin- too soon, and he has went backwards this season. The irony is that Darren C could've had his chance, and would he have faired any worse?
I think DK and the Irish management have been trying to manage this decline by increments (excrements? lol), in the vain hope that something/ another BOD or POC would appear as the cavalry. It is blatantly clear this isn't going to happen in the short term. I can see a few seasons of rebuilding. If so, then lets get it done. Better than watching a painful decline of a team and reputations.
But will the IRFU risk revenue loss etc., until the rebuilding is done? The scary thing is, at Provincial level, there doesn't seem to be many/ any viable options atm.
Whilst I don't think Paris is the time for wholesale change, subsequent fixtures against Scotland, England and Italy should see the sort of risk taking so far absent in Kidneys reign. Gatland did it when the same thing was apparent 10 years ago, and ushered in the "Golden era.." (Or was it Iron Pyrites...?) But I have no confidence in DK's ability to think outside the Munster box. This reminds me of the Lions tour of 2005, when Woodward was exposed relying on players well past their best, because he either lacked the knowledge or confidence in those from other countries. Contrast with McGeechs, who took calculated risks that often paid off. There is no plan B, and hasn't been since before the W/C. This is the most damning indictment imo. The poker face from DK is wearing thin- maybe he just doesn't anythhing new to say, is all?
What has Ireland really learned in the meantime? A flush of exceptional players (in Ireland terms) now seems a fluke or one-off, and the conveyor belt is grinding to a halt.
Wales were good, value for it. Good luck to them- elan, flair, power, youth, intelligence from youth, etc. etc. whats not to like, apart from it's not in Green?...
Plus les choses changent, plus les choses restent les mêmes
The lack of nous, power and muscularity between the Irish & Welsh backs was glaring.
Ditto many of the forwards even though Wales were missing some front liners such as Jenkins, Rees, Charteris and Lydiate. Another strong Welsh prop appears from nowhere- Gill was no mug, and had Ross in all sorts of trouble. Wither the same for Ireland. Is it co-incidental he plays in the Aviva?...
Beneath Ross- who? Nada? Not TC, defo not Buckley! Ireland need to start blooding T/H's asap at provincial level- 10 mins here and there for Archer (destroyed by Mullan for the Saxons, as he was against Ulster) and Macklin is not good enough. Afoa and Botha need rested for the lesser RABO's, and these guys given a run to develop. Its poor that a viable alternative may be Andress, who at least is starting in the Aviva, a strong scrummaging arena, if not much else.
Ireland had no one to match Bradley Davies- not even POC. Wales will be even better with Wyn Jones and Charteris available again. Again, who do Ireland have to match that Quartet?
DOC has gone- time to ship in players selected as first choice for their province- Ryan and Tuohy. Tuohy adds muscularity that Ryan does not, and is a banker at 2, flat ball, strong in the loose, and another carrier.
Enough has been said ref. the backrow balance- I believe the unit as a whole has been found out. Too one dimensional and predictable. And whisper it softly- my biggest disappontment was 1F. Sometimes he's marked absent in the big games; I felt yesterday was one of them. Ironically, he was my pick of the backrow in NZ vs Wales. But for a player touted by many as the best 6 in the world? Really- better than Bonnaire, Kaino, Ryan Jones, Smith/ Spies ffs? Big 1F just aint consistent enough. (And the penalty was harsh, but not clever imo- so no judgement on that..) What he does have, and its never really exploited, is great hands- some of his offloads yesterday are a level above SOB.
The backrow will probably stay the same given the lack of alternatives (unless Wallace returns,) and lack of international experience. Henry does the job at Rabo/Heiny level, but I would fear for his reputation as a starting 7.
If Wallace was back, either 1F or SOB would be benched as impact players. Harsh but true- a backrows reputation cannot be judged on duffing Oz alone.
Frustratingly, no mauls to talk of yesterday, which I felt could've mixed it up with Wales. And one purple patch of a sequnce of roughly 4 pick and drives in broken field was exquisite- was it repeated?- no- back to the single carrier bashing up the middle.
Ireland really aren't clever- both via the management, who should be sorting these things at h/time, and players on the pitch- there is enough experience there to have taken that game by the b*lls, and continued with the simple stuff that worked. The above highlights that lack of thinking in the furnace that could've made a difference.
I'll let the girls squabble over the make up of the backs, although Bowe should maybe get a run in the centre- he did it well enough for the Lions. Move McFadden or Earls to the wing. Not sure there is a ready made alternative to D'Arcy without pulling the house down. But the paucity of quality ball and genuine line breaks yesterday should force the issue of change imo. The contrast with Wales was stark. Agree regarding Nevin- too soon, and he has went backwards this season. The irony is that Darren C could've had his chance, and would he have faired any worse?
I think DK and the Irish management have been trying to manage this decline by increments (excrements? lol), in the vain hope that something/ another BOD or POC would appear as the cavalry. It is blatantly clear this isn't going to happen in the short term. I can see a few seasons of rebuilding. If so, then lets get it done. Better than watching a painful decline of a team and reputations.
But will the IRFU risk revenue loss etc., until the rebuilding is done? The scary thing is, at Provincial level, there doesn't seem to be many/ any viable options atm.
Whilst I don't think Paris is the time for wholesale change, subsequent fixtures against Scotland, England and Italy should see the sort of risk taking so far absent in Kidneys reign. Gatland did it when the same thing was apparent 10 years ago, and ushered in the "Golden era.." (Or was it Iron Pyrites...?) But I have no confidence in DK's ability to think outside the Munster box. This reminds me of the Lions tour of 2005, when Woodward was exposed relying on players well past their best, because he either lacked the knowledge or confidence in those from other countries. Contrast with McGeechs, who took calculated risks that often paid off. There is no plan B, and hasn't been since before the W/C. This is the most damning indictment imo. The poker face from DK is wearing thin- maybe he just doesn't anythhing new to say, is all?
What has Ireland really learned in the meantime? A flush of exceptional players (in Ireland terms) now seems a fluke or one-off, and the conveyor belt is grinding to a halt.
Wales were good, value for it. Good luck to them- elan, flair, power, youth, intelligence from youth, etc. etc. whats not to like, apart from it's not in Green?...
Plus les choses changent, plus les choses restent les mêmes
Exterminate all rational thought
Re: Ireland v Wales
You have me baffled now. Do you mean O'Mahony?bazzaj wrote: Which leads me neatly to my final point.
If DK was prepared to name Jennings on the bench I assumed it was because he was prepared to start with the big 3 and bring him on if we were struggling in that area again.
Of course this happened and he remained on the bench.
Why pick him there then if he had no intention of playing him as opposed to Henry who can cover all 3 positions and has more of a future within the set up you would think?
Baffling.
Illegitimi Non Carborundum
Re: Ireland v Wales
For the record I did not think the red card against Wales in the RWC was justified; still don't. The spear tackle with intent and five metres off the ball on Saturday was a red without a shadow of a doubt. Ferris's tackle was a debatable penalty and definitely not a yellow. IMnotsoHumbleO!
From the rolling glens of Antrim through the hills of Donegal we will stand and shout for Ulster as we win both scrum and maul from the lovely lakes of Fermanagh tae the shores of ould Lough Gall we will scream and shout for Ulster as we beat them one and all!
Re: Ireland v Wales
For the record I did not think the red card against Wales in the RWC was justified; still don't. The spear tackle with intent and five metres off the ball on Saturday was a red without a shadow of a doubt. Ferris's tackle was a debatable penalty and definitely not a yellow. IMnotsoHumbleO!
From the rolling glens of Antrim through the hills of Donegal we will stand and shout for Ulster as we win both scrum and maul from the lovely lakes of Fermanagh tae the shores of ould Lough Gall we will scream and shout for Ulster as we beat them one and all!
Re: Ireland v Wales
Mean of course yesterday Sunday; just trying to forget it.
From the rolling glens of Antrim through the hills of Donegal we will stand and shout for Ulster as we win both scrum and maul from the lovely lakes of Fermanagh tae the shores of ould Lough Gall we will scream and shout for Ulster as we beat them one and all!
Re: Ireland v Wales
Highlights on BBC websiteBIGBADDON wrote:Does anyone know where I could find footage of the Bradley Davis tackle, the daffodil pluckers don't seem too keen to show it. Pity Mr Pierson hadn't the gumption to make a Mr Roland decision.
Re: Ireland v Wales
Conveniently the BBC highlights do not include the Davies tackle but do show the Ferris yellow!! The editor showing some nice Welsh bias there!!ColinM wrote:Highlights on BBC websiteBIGBADDON wrote:Does anyone know where I could find footage of the Bradley Davis tackle, the daffodil pluckers don't seem too keen to show it. Pity Mr Pierson hadn't the gumption to make a Mr Roland decision.
Re: Ireland v Wales
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUm9Whla ... r_embeddedmea97mb wrote:Conveniently the BBC highlights do not include the Davies tackle but do show the Ferris yellow!! The editor showing some nice Welsh bias there!!ColinM wrote:Highlights on BBC websiteBIGBADDON wrote:Does anyone know where I could find footage of the Bradley Davis tackle, the daffodil pluckers don't seem too keen to show it. Pity Mr Pierson hadn't the gumption to make a Mr Roland decision.
“That made me feel very special and underlined to me that Ulster is more than a team, it is a community and a rugby family"
Rory Best
Rory Best
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bazzaj
Re: Ireland v Wales
Stand corrected.cables wrote:You have me baffled now. Do you mean O'Mahony?bazzaj wrote: Which leads me neatly to my final point.
If DK was prepared to name Jennings on the bench I assumed it was because he was prepared to start with the big 3 and bring him on if we were struggling in that area again.
Of course this happened and he remained on the bench.
Why pick him there then if he had no intention of playing him as opposed to Henry who can cover all 3 positions and has more of a future within the set up you would think?
Baffling.
OMahony is still more of 6.
Birch must be licking his lips.
Re: Ireland v Wales
mea97mb wrote:Conveniently the BBC highlights do not include the Davies tackle but do show the Ferris yellow!! The editor showing some nice Welsh bias there!!ColinM wrote:Highlights on BBC websiteBIGBADDON wrote:Does anyone know where I could find footage of the Bradley Davis tackle, the daffodil pluckers don't seem too keen to show it. Pity Mr Pierson hadn't the gumption to make a Mr Roland decision.
Theres another clip - tale of the weekend or something, its about 3 mins long and shows both offences
EDIT: 6N Snapshot: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/16907064
Re: Ireland v Wales
really from the way Woody was commenting about the game you'd have thought there was only one side playing.Until we beat you 
i love munching Leeks....