12/13 Ulster Academy

[Lurgan Lad]

by Lurgan Lad » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:18 am

I do agree with looking at players at an early age but reducing the number in the academy strikes me of putting all your eggs in one basket, if the ones you have don't work out you are stuck.

Generally a high percentage of the academy dont go on to play professional rugby. If BMcL etc go out and identify real potential earlier, then the cream of the crop can be identified at an earlier age and taken down the right path.

As an example, from 2006, look at the amount of players who failed to make it, think of the time and money wasted by UR trying to develop them.

If the real talent had been identified earlier then those 5 could have been developed even further, and the ones who have failed to make it could have been weeded out before the cost of the academy.

Ulster Academy 2006-07

Mark Robinson
Darren Cave
Mark McCrea
Michael Ferguson
Thomas Anderson
David Pollock
Niall O'Connor
Stuart Megaw
Christine Robb
David Drake
Owen McMurray
Phil Coulter
Neil Simpson
Stephen Douglas
Richard Fegan
Willie Falloon
Dale Black

That would be fair enough except I don't think at teenage and early twenties level it is that easy to have confidence in who will work out. That's how I feel, reality could be different but people do develop both physically and mentally quite a bit in their late teens early twenties.

[fuzzylogic]

and thats why you and I post on message boards like this while BMcL etc actually go out and do the work.

[Tighty]

Ulster Academy Squad 2011-12

Jake Caulfield (Prop, Malone)
Conor Carey (Prop, Ballynahinch)
Kyle McCall (Prop, Ballynahinch)
Jonny Murphy (Hooker, Banbridge)
James Simpson (Second row, Ballynahinch)
Alan O'Connor (Second row, Malone)
Neil Faloon (Back row, Ballynahinch)
Conor Joyce (Back row, Malone)
Sean O'Connell (Back row, Belfast Harlequins)
Stuart Olding (Outhalf, Belfast Harlequins)
Chris Farrell (Centre, Dungannon)
Peter Nelson (Back three, Dungannon)
Ricky Andrew (Back three, Ballymena)
Rory Scholes (Back three, Belfast

Mike - I think you have left out Rory Scholes in your original list .

The above list - which includes Scholes - is from UR website and , although it is under the title of ''Ulster Academy Squad 2011-12'' , would appear to refer 12/13.

As far the numbers in ''the Academy'' is concerned , my understanding is that UR is adopting the 2 tier approach of the other Provinces - ie the first tier is where players coming out of school/youth rugby will enter a Sub Academy type structure where they will receive various supports but probably no payment. Depending on how they develop, players can progress into ''the Academy proper'' where they will receive support / coaching etc and ''a few pound'' by way of a High Performance Contract. My understanding would be that this is the way Leinster and Munster have been operating over the past number of years while the Ulster has used the title ''Academy'' to cover both aspects .

Although the same title ''Academy '' has been used in all 3 Provinces , this difference in organisational approach may make it difficult to analyse the ''success rate '' of each Provincial Academy in terms of players who progress to professional contracts.

Can I hear spreadsheets being torn up as we speak ??

I would highlight that this is ''my understanding'' ... which may be off the mark to a greater or lesser degree

[mikerob]

Ulster Academy Squad 2011-12

Rory Scholes (Back three, Belfast

Mike - I think you have left out Rory Scholes in your original list .

The above list - which includes Scholes - is from UR website and , although it is under the title of ''Ulster Academy Squad 2011-12'' , would appear to refer 12/13.

Thanks for pointing this out Tighty. I took my list from the Ulster Rugby Academy Profiles page of the UR website (the page with a drop down menu to select the Academy year) and Scholes isn't on this list for 12/13.

UR aren't the best at keeping the website up to date and accurate.

[Lurgan Lad]

Ulster Academy Squad 2011-12

Jake Caulfield (Prop, Malone)
Conor Carey (Prop, Ballynahinch)
Kyle McCall (Prop, Ballynahinch)
Jonny Murphy (Hooker, Banbridge)
James Simpson (Second row, Ballynahinch)
Alan O'Connor (Second row, Malone)
Neil Faloon (Back row, Ballynahinch)
Conor Joyce (Back row, Malone)
Sean O'Connell (Back row, Belfast Harlequins)
Stuart Olding (Outhalf, Belfast Harlequins)
Chris Farrell (Centre, Dungannon)
Peter Nelson (Back three, Dungannon)
Ricky Andrew (Back three, Ballymena)
Rory Scholes (Back three, Belfast

Mike - I think you have left out Rory Scholes in your original list .

The above list - which includes Scholes - is from UR website and , although it is under the title of ''Ulster Academy Squad 2011-12'' , would appear to refer 12/13.

As far the numbers in ''the Academy'' is concerned , my understanding is that UR is adopting the 2 tier approach of the other Provinces - ie the first tier is where players coming out of school/youth rugby will enter a Sub Academy type structure where they will receive various supports but probably no payment. Depending on how they develop, players can progress into ''the Academy proper'' where they will receive support / coaching etc and ''a few pound'' by way of a High Performance Contract. My understanding would be that this is the way Leinster and Munster have been operating over the past number of years while the Ulster has used the title ''Academy'' to cover both aspects .

Although the same title ''Academy '' has been used in all 3 Provinces , this difference in organisational approach may make it difficult to analyse the ''success rate '' of each Provincial Academy in terms of players who progress to professional contracts.

Can I hear spreadsheets being torn up as we speak ??

I would highlight that this is ''my understanding'' ... which may be off the mark to a greater or lesser degree

Thanks for that tighty, very interesting.

[bootlaced]

Would it be fair to say that most of the Academy players are coming from rugby playing schools,as opposed to clubs developing players who are not from rugby playing schools,and if so what is the structure for a promising youth player who is not in a particular school?

[RuPi]

I presume it would be similar to a school player in that they are nominated for the Under 16 Development Squad, if good enough move into U17 Development Squad and then possibly Ulster Clubs U18, if deemed good enough after that they will progress into the Ulster U19/U20 squad.

[rumncoke]

Players in a club have already got a sort of Academy structure the problem with guys coming out of schools they may not be in a club thus if the academy doesn't catch them they could be lost not just to professional rugby but club rugby.

The other feature is that backs are easier to spot young forwards have to mature before their potential can be truely identified some mature some don't.

[darkside lightside]

As far the numbers in ''the Academy'' is concerned , my understanding is that UR is adopting the 2 tier approach of the other Provinces - ie the first tier is where players coming out of school/youth rugby will enter a Sub Academy type structure where they will receive various supports but probably no payment. Depending on how they develop, players can progress into ''the Academy proper'' where they will receive support / coaching etc and ''a few pound'' by way of a High Performance Contract. My understanding would be that this is the way Leinster and Munster have been operating over the past number of years while the Ulster has used the title ''Academy'' to cover both aspects .

Although the same title ''Academy '' has been used in all 3 Provinces , this difference in organisational approach may make it difficult to analyse the ''success rate '' of each Provincial Academy in terms of players who progress to professional contracts.

Can I hear spreadsheets being torn up as we speak ??

I would highlight that this is ''my understanding'' ... which may be off the mark to a greater or lesser degree

not quite torn up that is interesting though - in the last 3-4 years, what has happened in Munster is that Academy listings have run at around 16-18 per year; Leinster had 19 listed in 2009, this dipped to just 16 the next year, but since then has grown steadily, and this season there are 24 in their Academy (and there was no room for a couple of successful Ireland U-20s, like Foster Horan, Barry Daly, Des Merrey, Alan O'Connor); while Ulster seem to have made the opposite journey, they had around 20 names in the last 3 games, before a big dip down to 14 this season - the same number as Connacht!

This means that besides external imports Caulfield and O'Connor, there was only one local addition to the academy this year..

[Big-al]

Chris Taylor was the Ireland U19 1st choice Tighthead prop last season and was the TH prop for the Ulster U20s Grand slam winners so you'd expect him to be inducted at some stage this season.

[rocky]

And still first choice THP at Malone, Al.

[connachtexile]

no sure were to ask so I'm putting it here. Heard a rumour about Connacht and Chris Cochrane. Anyone hear anything your side? Would you rate him? I saw him once or twice but not enough to make a judgement.

[joyfulrodger]

He's a very good winger IMO. Fast, elusive, runs good lines and always seems to end up on the score sheet. He's had the misfortune to be behind international wings in his time with Ulster (Allen seemed to be preferred to him at the start of this season but he's looked promising too) but a move out west could be good for him.

[RuPi]

Could be a good move for Ghosty.

With regards the U20's, I am led to believe that anybody still included in the Ireland U20 set up is training with the academy at present and the Ireland U20's will face the Ravens on Saturday 29th.

[ColinM]

no sure were to ask so I'm putting it here. Heard a rumour about Connacht and Chris Cochrane. Anyone hear anything your side? Would you rate him? I saw him once or twice but not enough to make a judgement.

He'll do (almost) as well for you lads as Carr