|Schools cup 2017

[Beattiespastie]

I just dip in once in blue moon Rooster- some of the RBAI lads are good craic and passionate about the old school ties and the banter is good and I understand that feeling when you get one up on the old enemy. I am an older citizen who should know better.

[Rooster]

If both schools would concentrate more on skills based rugby perhaps we would have a better feed of players to clubs and Ulster ?
I know a couple of young lads in the club age grade sides and they say the schools lads generally bigger and stronger but the club lads are more skills based and enjoy the game more.

[Russ]

I just dip in once in blue moon Rooster- some of the RBAI lads are good craic and passionate about the old school ties and the banter is good and I understand that feeling when you get one up on the old enemy. I am an older citizen who should know better.

Maybe it's time to move on from "craic and passion for old school ties"

[Blow in]

If both schools would concentrate more on skills based rugby perhaps we would have a better feed of players to clubs and Ulster ?
I know a couple of young lads in the club age grade sides and they say the schools lads generally bigger and stronger but the club lads are more skills based and enjoy the game more.

Inst don't play 10 man rugby, from year 8 it's all about getting quick ball out to the backs, the 3 afternoon sessions are all skills based, with two early morning gym sessions.
I watched carrick under 16's and 18 play Campbell Colts and 2XV, the carrick teams were much bigger but not as fit or as skilled.

The schools cup is probably the worst games of the season which is when most folk watch schools rugby, because it's knock out games.

[Beattiespastie]

The gym obsession is ruining schoolboy rugby. 16-18 year olds gulping down maxi muscle and other 'products' to get themselves huge regardless of their positions on the field. At 6'1 and 16.5 stone I am a big lad but I see schoolboy players who dwarf me and down the line that's going to cause problems health wise. I agree with a massive rethink on skill sets from the grass roots upwards.

[Beattiespastie]

My son finished senior rugby with two schools cup winners medals as a squad player and as soon as he got to University he never touched a rugby ball again. My son was as hard as nails and didn't give an inch in training or in playing but he became very disillusioned at the internal politics concerning size amongst other things. One summer he was told to go away and put on weight and forget the aerobic side which he did. He came back having gained 6kg through eating, protein shakes and huge gym work. He returned to preseason only to struggle with the pace and was brought to one side and told ' not to worry' you will catch up. At his heaviest my son was 5'11 and 97kg and hated it and now three years out he is fitter than he ever was at 80 kg which is his natural weight as he is very athletic. My son is not alone as I know a number of stories but I also think we as parents are responsible for this mentality as well. As an avid gym goer I pushed my son hard in the gym outside of his schools rugby set up and on reflection I feel bad for doing that but I have long since reconciled this with my big lad. He got wrapped up in the whole thing as did I. I look at schools players this year and I can see kids who are going through the same process. Once you have been in that gold fish bowl and are fortunate enough to win a schools cup winners medal you will quickly realise that life goes on once you leave your school. If you good enough and fortunate enough to play age grade then you may or may not get sub academy or academy status but all the while a bigger guy is coming along.
We are losing talented youngsters because at 16-18 they are not big enough and they walk away and it's a pity. I heard people remark about Robert Lyttle being ' too small' to pull the Ulster jersey on but he's proved the detractors wrong. We need to look at rugby from P5 upwards and put the kids into size groups and teach the skill sets . When we move on from the 'winning at all costs" mentality from minis up to schools rugby we may see a chink of light. As it stands the Schools Cup is a yearly procession with the obligatory Belfast schools name on the cup. Time for a grass roots rethink.

[Blow in]

The gym obsession is ruining schoolboy rugby. 16-18 year olds gulping down maxi muscle and other 'products' to get themselves huge regardless of their positions on the field. At 6'1 and 16.5 stone I am a big lad but I see schoolboy players who dwarf me and down the line that's going to cause problems health wise. I agree with a massive rethink on skill sets from the grass roots upwards.

"gym obssesion" Can only comment on RBAI but 2 gym sesions a week isnt over the top IMO.

[pwrmoore]

The gym obsession is ruining schoolboy rugby. 16-18 year olds gulping down maxi muscle and other 'products' to get themselves huge regardless of their positions on the field. At 6'1 and 16.5 stone I am a big lad but I see schoolboy players who dwarf me and down the line that's going to cause problems health wise. I agree with a massive rethink on skill sets from the grass roots upwards.

"gym obssesion" Can only comment on RBAI but 2 gym sesions a week isnt over the top IMO.

but that's 2 organised team gym sessions - what are they "encouraged" to do in addition. I've been a member of several gyms over the years and there were always a few Campbell/MCB/Inst 1st XV boys at them doing gym work in their own time (also from some of the "Lesser" rugby schools too of course).

[Blow in]

The gym obsession is ruining schoolboy rugby. 16-18 year olds gulping down maxi muscle and other 'products' to get themselves huge regardless of their positions on the field. At 6'1 and 16.5 stone I am a big lad but I see schoolboy players who dwarf me and down the line that's going to cause problems health wise. I agree with a massive rethink on skill sets from the grass roots upwards.

"gym obssesion" Can only comment on RBAI but 2 gym sesions a week isnt over the top IMO.

but that's 2 organised team gym sessions - what are they "encouraged" to do in addition. I've been a member of several gyms over the years and there were always a few Campbell/MCB/Inst 1st XV boys at them doing gym work in their own time (also from some of the "Lesser" rugby schools too of course).

Again only speaking from my sons experience -no additional gym training

[Rooster]

My son finished senior rugby with two schools cup winners medals as a squad player and as soon as he got to University he never touched a rugby ball again. My son was as hard as nails and didn't give an inch in training or in playing but he became very disillusioned at the internal politics concerning size amongst other things. One summer he was told to go away and put on weight and forget the aerobic side which he did. He came back having gained 6kg through eating, protein shakes and huge gym work. He returned to preseason only to struggle with the pace and was brought to one side and told ' not to worry' you will catch up. At his heaviest my son was 5'11 and 97kg and hated it and now three years out he is fitter than he ever was at 80 kg which is his natural weight as he is very athletic. My son is not alone as I know a number of stories but I also think we as parents are responsible for this mentality as well. As an avid gym goer I pushed my son hard in the gym outside of his schools rugby set up and on reflection I feel bad for doing that but I have long since reconciled this with my big lad. He got wrapped up in the whole thing as did I. I look at schools players this year and I can see kids who are going through the same process. Once you have been in that gold fish bowl and are fortunate enough to win a schools cup winners medal you will quickly realise that life goes on once you leave your school. If you good enough and fortunate enough to play age grade then you may or may not get sub academy or academy status but all the while a bigger guy is coming along.
We are losing talented youngsters because at 16-18 they are not big enough and they walk away and it's a pity. I heard people remark about Robert Lyttle being ' too small' to pull the Ulster jersey on but he's proved the detractors wrong. We need to look at rugby from P5 upwards and put the kids into size groups and teach the skill sets . When we move on from the 'winning at all costs" mentality from minis up to schools rugby we may see a chink of light. As it stands the Schools Cup is a yearly procession with the obligatory Belfast schools name on the cup. Time for a grass roots rethink.

Perhaps that is the answer to my posting about the young club players enjoying rugby more but really struggling against the size of the uninterested schools players.

[Beattiespastie]

I speak from experience and I too have observed young lads from the top rugby schools hitting the gym hard outside of school which I firmly believe is now the norm. Two controlled gym sessions at school does not account for the size of a good number of 1st XV schools players on the pitch in modern times .Rooster you are correct in what you say and it's a growing problem.

[Blow in]

If hat's the case good luck to them if they can fit outside gym in as well as 3 pitch sessions,2 gym sessions and a game on Saturday, plus studying for GCSEs/A levels.
Amazed anyone can get "bigger" as there is no time for the body to rest.

[Blow in]

The First XV play mainly on Saturdays, with the rugby week including two squad training sessions on the pitch, one captain’s run, two gym sessions, and a Sunday recovery session in a local swimming pool.

taken from the CHB post in the acdamey thread. sounds exactly like what RBAI do, strange with them having a coach from NZ

[Beattiespastie]

Sunday recovery session in a swimming pool? My goodness! Ice bath in a wheelie bin after the game on Saturday then home. Sunday was the catch up day for homework and course work.

[lw7]

Does the IRFU have any guidance, where applicable, on the selection of schoolboys for senior professional games?
It's rumoured that Ulster Branch enquired to CCB about the availability of young prop Tom O'Toole as bench cover for the Dragons game. The school duly declined.