Ulster v Clermont Sat Jan 22 5:30pm BT Sport 3
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Re: Ulster v Clermont Sat Jan 22 5:30pm BT Sport 3
Agree that one can be ambivalent. That was why it had IMHO on the statement.....
The timing of the DV one was odd and perhaps earlier than usual, but we've done taken him off before. Normally Jones comes on and we shift Timoney to 8. We always swap the front three, and usually one second row, so no great surprises there. Rea looked pretty done to me.....
I can see why people might differ on some of the others. I do think that the Doak/Shanahan was right, for the reasons given above. Can see why Curtis was pulled for Moxham - the latter played there v Munster as a better defender and Clermont had just brought on their 1st XI backline with a number of French internationals. The one I was somewhat surprised at was Burns, especially without Madigan, but hey, everyone's calling for Lowry at 10 and McIlroy's played FB before. So what better time to give it a go when you're 22 points up...... Can't play Zebre every week.
As for making substitions per se, I accept the example of the HC QF at Thomond in 2012 (I think still the best day I've had supporting Ulster in the flesh and one when the Ulster support made a massive difference). I'd perhaps put that match in the 'exception that proves the rule' category (and I seem to recall that our bench wasn't magic that day) ? Still, one thing I do know, if I had Clermont's bench sitting on our one, I'd have made a few subs.
The timing of the DV one was odd and perhaps earlier than usual, but we've done taken him off before. Normally Jones comes on and we shift Timoney to 8. We always swap the front three, and usually one second row, so no great surprises there. Rea looked pretty done to me.....
I can see why people might differ on some of the others. I do think that the Doak/Shanahan was right, for the reasons given above. Can see why Curtis was pulled for Moxham - the latter played there v Munster as a better defender and Clermont had just brought on their 1st XI backline with a number of French internationals. The one I was somewhat surprised at was Burns, especially without Madigan, but hey, everyone's calling for Lowry at 10 and McIlroy's played FB before. So what better time to give it a go when you're 22 points up...... Can't play Zebre every week.
As for making substitions per se, I accept the example of the HC QF at Thomond in 2012 (I think still the best day I've had supporting Ulster in the flesh and one when the Ulster support made a massive difference). I'd perhaps put that match in the 'exception that proves the rule' category (and I seem to recall that our bench wasn't magic that day) ? Still, one thing I do know, if I had Clermont's bench sitting on our one, I'd have made a few subs.
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Re: Ulster v Clermont Sat Jan 22 5:30pm BT Sport 3
I've been told that one of the men killed in this traffic accident on Saturday ( https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-60110156 ) was coming from Ravers. Anyone know if this is true?
Re: Ulster v Clermont Sat Jan 22 5:30pm BT Sport 3
It’s clear Dan thought the game was one when he joked some of those players off. I remember a few weeks ago he was criticised on here for keeping Herring on the pitch too long when he was done. Have to make judgement calls. I guess the one thing here was that there were high quality bench players for Clermont who were better than some of the starters.
Modern day front rows and especially props rarely go the 80 and physically it’s tough coming up against a fresh front row if you have put in a hard shift already. Players like AOC can’t be expected to compete at this level for 80 minutes.
One of the problems in the backrow is that right now only Timoney seems able to put in an 80 minute shift. Young Marcus is still finding his way at this level although doing very well this season. Not sure with DV if it is game management, age or fatigue but Dan seems quite keen to take him off after an hour or so.
Dan thought it was an opportunity to give Shanners and Lowry (at 10) some gametime in Europe which they won’t typically get. It almost backfired. Lowry can’t be expected to run games from 10 even off the bench when he has not had any gametime there. He needs some starts at 10, even if Dan still wants Burns as his first choice. You can’t ask someone to just slot into that position.
Modern day front rows and especially props rarely go the 80 and physically it’s tough coming up against a fresh front row if you have put in a hard shift already. Players like AOC can’t be expected to compete at this level for 80 minutes.
One of the problems in the backrow is that right now only Timoney seems able to put in an 80 minute shift. Young Marcus is still finding his way at this level although doing very well this season. Not sure with DV if it is game management, age or fatigue but Dan seems quite keen to take him off after an hour or so.
Dan thought it was an opportunity to give Shanners and Lowry (at 10) some gametime in Europe which they won’t typically get. It almost backfired. Lowry can’t be expected to run games from 10 even off the bench when he has not had any gametime there. He needs some starts at 10, even if Dan still wants Burns as his first choice. You can’t ask someone to just slot into that position.
Re: Ulster v Clermont Sat Jan 22 5:30pm BT Sport 3
Ulster’s run to the final in 2012 was partly due to a lack of injuries to key players for most of the games. The bench was no great shakes (think it was the likes of willie Falloon and Lewis Stevenson). Without the injured Henry and suspended Afoa we laboured to a semi final victory over Edinburgh and were lucky that was the quality of opposition.
Re: Ulster v Clermont Sat Jan 22 5:30pm BT Sport 3
Bart I agree and I think the majority of the Ulster supporters at Ravenhill on Friday night reckoned on the 60 mins mark that the game was in the bag. Under normal conditions it would seem logical to save some key players and to give others a run in different positions and Dan would have been applauded for doing so.
Unfortunately there was a vast difference in experience in the two benches.
I reckon both coaches will be regretting this game, Dan for using his bench and Gibbes
for having not started with his bench.
Let’s hope this is a lesson learned but this is not to take anything away from a great performance from a team shorn of so many
seemingly first choice starters. I say seemingly because so many of those who have been shoved into the breaches during this campaign are making future selections difficult.
Unfortunately there was a vast difference in experience in the two benches.
I reckon both coaches will be regretting this game, Dan for using his bench and Gibbes
for having not started with his bench.
Let’s hope this is a lesson learned but this is not to take anything away from a great performance from a team shorn of so many
seemingly first choice starters. I say seemingly because so many of those who have been shoved into the breaches during this campaign are making future selections difficult.
Re: Ulster v Clermont Sat Jan 22 5:30pm BT Sport 3
Nah - the game WAS in the bag and Clermont were always looking at one of the top teams in the other pool.
Perfectly judged by Dan and Gibbes will get a crack at Tigers over two legs.
Perfectly judged by Dan and Gibbes will get a crack at Tigers over two legs.
Re: Ulster v Clermont Sat Jan 22 5:30pm BT Sport 3
whether the right inspired call or not , I was disappointed that DmCF laid all the blame of the shambolic last 20 minutes on the replacement players. Had the players going off made their own calls to be substituted?? I don't think so
His call, his responsibility, a lucky let off, and a big lesson learned. We ( UR) do not have the strength in depth to allow us to do this, ( ie game won, resting on laurels etc etc)........... especially when the opposition has undoubted ( if sometimes suppressed) talent and skill.
His call, his responsibility, a lucky let off, and a big lesson learned. We ( UR) do not have the strength in depth to allow us to do this, ( ie game won, resting on laurels etc etc)........... especially when the opposition has undoubted ( if sometimes suppressed) talent and skill.
Re: Ulster v Clermont Sat Jan 22 5:30pm BT Sport 3
""Not sure with DV if it is game management, age or fatigue but Dan seems quite keen to take him off after an hour or so."
and DV is nuts on this one. DV can play 80/85 mins regularly for SA bit can't be trusted for more than 60 mins for UR?
B****x.
and DV is nuts on this one. DV can play 80/85 mins regularly for SA bit can't be trusted for more than 60 mins for UR?
B****x.
Re: Ulster v Clermont Sat Jan 22 5:30pm BT Sport 3
horlix indeed.
He was subbed off in his first game after COVID and subbed off after we had beaten Clermont.
That’s it.
With a stronger squad, I’d have given him the game off against Scarlets but we need him (hence the early shower last week).
He was subbed off in his first game after COVID and subbed off after we had beaten Clermont.
That’s it.
With a stronger squad, I’d have given him the game off against Scarlets but we need him (hence the early shower last week).
Re: Ulster v Clermont Sat Jan 22 5:30pm BT Sport 3
Basically Clermont recognised a make shift back line -- scrum half - out half -inside centre - outside centre - wing and full back as well as a changed back row -- Defensively Ulster were disorganised --and no time to organise . Clermont sent the ball wide and the spaces appeared and were exploited.
Changing the backline so much against an astute French side is asking for trouble .
Changing the backline so much against an astute French side is asking for trouble .
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Re: Ulster v Clermont Sat Jan 22 5:30pm BT Sport 3
Clermont had also kept some of their best players, particularly Lopez and Penaud, in reserve, so we played most of the game with our best players against a weaker Clermont 15, and the last ten minutes with a weaker Ulster 15 against some of Clermont's stronger players. Strategic decision by Clermont, but thankfully they left it just too late.
We do need to watch those last minute slips though, we've done it a few times this season. Other teams are obviously noticing.
We do need to watch those last minute slips though, we've done it a few times this season. Other teams are obviously noticing.
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Re: Ulster v Clermont Sat Jan 22 5:30pm BT Sport 3
It used to be the first 10 mins. A 7-0 start for the opposition was the norm.
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Re: Ulster v Clermont Sat Jan 22 5:30pm BT Sport 3
Dan can only select what he has but also has to be mindful of who the opposition can bring on. The players coming on were very poor. Shanahan looks too terrified to tackle anyone. Carter is so poor. He looks miles off it physically.
I have my own tv channel, what have you got?