Crisis or chronic illness??

[paddybrown]

I've said before about how, the season before last, after Coetzee left and Cooney was knocked out in the Challenge Cup semi-final, our game collapsed and we didn't get our mojo back through the whole of the Rainbow Cup. The second half against Leinster reminded me of that semi-final against Leicester, and this week's performance reminded me of how poor we were in the Rainbow Cup.

But last season we spread the leadership and learned to win without the big names. I'm sure we can get it back sooner than we did two seasons ago.

I think there were three factors today: the travel chaos, the hangover from last week's collapse against Leinster, and possibly some lingering ill-effects from Durban. We looked lethargic, everybody looked like they were running through treacle. I'm not a fitness coach, I don't know what can be done to re-energise the players for next weekend, or if maybe some players need rested, but I think we need to be there and make some noise.

[Jetstream]

I was at the match I am ashamed to admit. Sale I thought were not that good. But they didn't have to be. McCloskey I think was really angry with the lack of effort. I don't like mentioning referees but he gave us nothing. A real homer. He was assisted by our stupidity.

[BR]

I was at the match I am ashamed to admit. Sale I thought were not that good. But they didn't have to be. McCloskey I think was really angry with the lack of effort. I don't like mentioning referees but he gave us nothing. A real homer. He was assisted by our stupidity.

I wouldn't be ashamed of it, unless by 'at the match' you mean on the pitch or in the coaching box.

Someone asked why we should give a feck, if the players don't. It is because we are Ulstermen, they are Ulster Rugby players - something they have a choice about.

One positive will be at least UR won't have the nerve to inundate us with the usual, feel-good marketing campaign for ticket sales on Saturday. They wouldn't? Would they?

[Silverstu]

One thing specifically is different this year is that key players are off form- Hume, Lowry, McIlroy and Balacoune were lighting games up last season the way they combined in attack. That can change but it's worrying that there is very little spark about the team at the moment. Stockdale seems to be struggling to make a comeback after his injury problems and no sign of poor Will Addison either. It was evident going into the Sale game that we are out of form and I can't see it changing for La Rochelle. Its looking like a tough few games coming up.

[StandUp]

One thing specifically is different this year is that key players are off form- Hume, Lowry, McIlroy and Balacoune were lighting games up last season the way they combined in attack. That can change but it's worrying that there is very little spark about the team at the moment. Stockdale seems to be struggling to make a comeback after his injury problems and no sign of poor Will Addison either. It was evident going into the Sale game that we are out of form and I can't see it changing for La Rochelle. Its looking like a tough few games coming up.

Fair point. Last year teams didn’t know too much about Lowry et al. This year they are marked men and get closed down very quickly. They don’t get the space they need anymore which is where we need forwards punching holes to cause defences to narrow.
Fat chance with this pack.

[CIMANFOREVER]

One thing specifically is different this year is that key players are off form- Hume, Lowry, McIlroy and Balacoune were lighting games up last season the way they combined in attack. That can change but it's worrying that there is very little spark about the team at the moment. Stockdale seems to be struggling to make a comeback after his injury problems and no sign of poor Will Addison either. It was evident going into the Sale game that we are out of form and I can't see it changing for La Rochelle. Its looking like a tough few games coming up.

You got to fear for both JS and Addison long term. I hope JS ankle doesnt end up like Ferris's. RB, apart from developing hammer issues, has lost some of his fearlessness to attack garryowens, standing ball watching too much- this went back to last season,( i think/ recall) where he was lucky to escape red and seemed to go into his shell over this particular aspect of his game.

[Columbo]

I think I’m still shell-shocked by what I saw earlier.. how on earth can we have produced such an abject performance as that? And where on earth do you go from here??

I think the form issue is fair enough, Hume has been struggling for form since his injury, and we’ve had some bad luck with injuries, losing Marshall and Cooney when they were flying. Lowry, Stockdale and Doak really struggling for form, and Burns looks like he’s playing through an injury. But I think that there’s a causality question here - as in, has there really been some kind of simultaneous form dip among basically all our backs?? Or has our gameplan in attack and defence just been awful, in a way it wasn’t last year??

If you look at our fixtures, I’d argue we’ve just been up against 3 strong sides, Leinster twice and Sale, and looked decent in one half of each Leinster game, and poor for the other 4 halves, and lost each match - and at no time did we really look like we got our attack flowing. We didn’t look remotely threatening even once today. It feels to me like our attack has gone completely stale, and our defence has absolutely imploded - again looking at this season, we’ve played 9 games and on 4 occasions shipped 37-39 points.. that’s horrendous…

And my big over-arching question is are we actually just a squad of mentally weak, leaderless bottlers?? I think there was a bit of a question mark there last season - I heard it being spun that we were just a point or two away from Euro semi and the URC final, which is true, but again the less positive way of putting it is that we bottled 2 pressure knock-out games, both of which we should have closed out (giving up that soft try away at the death against Toulouse down to 14…)

I don’t know what to think tbh - I accepted a couple of corporate tickets for the grandstand next Sat and am so depressed by it all that I wish there was some way I could back out!


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[Lurgan Lad]

When I read about us being labelled as bottlers it implies we are a talented team that on the big stage doesn't perform. Perhaps we simply aren't as good as some think we are. If we are going to rely on Leinster cast offs and a quality NIQ here or there we are never going to win anything.

[allezlesverres]

When I read about us being labelled as bottlers it implies we are a talented team that on the big stage doesn't perform. Perhaps we simply aren't as good as some think we are. If we are going to rely on Leinster cast offs and a quality NIQ here or there we are never going to win anything.

There's nothing wrong with the quality of the players. McCloskey deserves to be talked about in the same sentence as Bundee or Henshaw. Hume last season was better than Ringrose by a long shot. Lowry was good enough last year to be considered genuine competition for Keenan (who is now widely regarded as one of the world's best FBs). The only second row in Ireland that's definitely better than Henderson is Jenkins (and when Henderson is on form you wouldn't even concede that). Last season, Baloucoune was one of the most exciting wings in Ireland. Moore is one of the best THs in Ireland. Our hookers are all excellent and are in squad terms as good as any other team bar Leinster (still arguable though - I'd take our second and third choices over theirs). Until recently Stockdale was on a trajectory towards being one of the best Irish wingers ever. Even Doak who has been so awful recently (come back Shanners all is forgiven) looked like he had the potential for greatness until recently.

The quality of players is there, we just aren't getting anything out of them. That's a coaching issue.

[promsandwich]

That's as bad a performance as I can remember and I've had a season ticket from 2005. It came against an English team who are not top drawer. We didn't fire any shots at all. It was an abysmal performance. Defence is now appalling and you don't have to be Einstein to work out why that is. Our front row options are limited. Player development is limited. Players being produced are limited. Hendo the last quality forward we have produced. Lightweight up front. Passive defence. Aimless kicking. No fight.

It's very difficult to see how we bounce back from this tbh. The players will be the same next week. I have been blinded by doing ok in the league over the last few years and convincing myself that we are on the right track. Not now. Fairly depressed. I still have faith in McFarland but much less so his team. Recruitment has been poor.

Still going next week

[StandUp]

I agree there is definitely a coaching issue however, I don’t believe that’s the only issue.
A goodly number of our players look like world beaters against poorer teams, and teams that don’t put them under pressure. When the pressure comes on, the players freeze and cannot make decisions. The coaches can help with this but I believe the players must address this personally. The coaches can’t do everything, and can’t make decisions on the pitch. The players must take responsibility for their own mental fragilities as individuals, then as a team.

I’ve been thinking about the problem and I think it boils down to our style of play. We don’t have a big powerful pack, so they try to play a fast tempo game. This is fine when players get space, but the other teams have twigged on to this. They already know from previous seasons that Ulster are far from a resilient squad and they now know if they get in our faces, don’t allow any space then there is no plan B. The players sh1t the togs and we end up with the ridiculous Leinster second half, and the truly disgraceful and shameful Sale game.
The lack of plan B, C etc. allied with the total lack of decision makers in the squad kills us. The cracks were already there. The clever coaches at Sale and Leinster and their respective, capable players, turned those cracks into gaping chasms.
With our current squad and coaching set up (and lack of any cohesive defensive structure) there is no quick fix.
If La Rochelle are really on it next week, we might get nilled at home.
My thumbs are now sore, and it’s all UR’s fault.

[HammerTime]

When I read about us being labelled as bottlers it implies we are a talented team that on the big stage doesn't perform. Perhaps we simply aren't as good as some think we are. If we are going to rely on Leinster cast offs and a quality NIQ here or there we are never going to win anything.

There's nothing wrong with the quality of the players. McCloskey deserves to be talked about in the same sentence as Bundee or Henshaw. Hume last season was better than Ringrose by a long shot. Lowry was good enough last year to be considered genuine competition for Keenan (who is now widely regarded as one of the world's best FBs). The only second row in Ireland that's definitely better than Henderson is Jenkins (and when Henderson is on form you wouldn't even concede that). Last season, Baloucoune was one of the most exciting wings in Ireland. Moore is one of the best THs in Ireland. Our hookers are all excellent and are in squad terms as good as any other team bar Leinster (still arguable though - I'd take our second and third choices over theirs). Until recently Stockdale was on a trajectory towards being one of the best Irish wingers ever. Even Doak who has been so awful recently (come back Shanners all is forgiven) looked like he had the potential for greatness until recently.

The quality of players is there, we just aren't getting anything out of them. That's a coaching issue.

Yes the argument I make is last year the likes of Baloucoune, Lowry, Hume were exceptional. To a lesser extent were Moore, McIlroy and Doak. They all must have been thinking/hoping of cementing their places in the extended Ireland training squads for the 6Ns and World Cup by having a good summer tour to NZ, emerging Ireland and Autumn Internationals. They all flopped (some due to injury) Then, unusually, we play Leinster twice early in the season which meant full teams for once on both sides. Another great opportunity v the best but two more major flops!! Using the example of Hume ... I was a superfan last year and believed he was much the better player than Ringrose, who I am not a fan of anyway. Hume must have been distraught when he himself got injured in NZ just before Ringrose got injured which would have otherwise seen Hume in the team. He has never recovered, was made a fool of by Ringrose in the two Leinster games and Hume now looks like dogsh!te. Ringrose has stepped it up majorly this year tbf to him. Hansen over RB is another one. Jimmy O'Brien sneaking in ahead of Lowry is another!! These boys look broken! It is a loser mentality that is so typical right throughout the organisation. I see another pitiful representation in the Ireland underages teams. 1 player at u-18 level!!! Rugby is dying away in Ulster. I heard someone say that playing numbers are growing but if you take out female numbers it has dropped massively. Where are the likes of Crothers and Sheridan etc. Their equivalents in the Ireland u20's are all in and around their squads at other provinces. Do Ulstermen have the brain power to partake in the dedication it takes to be a top athlete? I don't know how many footballers I have heard of getting signed by an English club only to be back home in a year or two having partied and pished it up against the wall. Maybe the thought of it sounds better than the doing. These young Leinster boys are machines. Nothing will stop them. A completely ruthless mindset. And there's a conveyer belt of them year after year. Young Ulster bais just want to drink, wear the tracksuit or fcuk off to Uni on the mainland.

[UlsterNo9]

Dan seems to think he has plenty of credit in the bank...... in todays Indo, just quoted his comments, full article at link below.

Dan McFarland calls for calm and focus after Ulster suffer embarrassing Sale whitewash

“There is always going to be criticism,” he said. “I have got a job to focus on just as the guys have got a job to focus on. In terms of credit in the bank, this is a side that has done a lot over a chunk of time – 120 minutes of rugby not playing great, we’ll be looking at that as much as anybody else and just refocusing on what we are good at. It doesn’t turn you into a bad team, 120 minutes of rugby.”

“Most of our energy going into next week will be focusing on what we have got to do against La Rochelle,” he added. “We are not going to fall into a swamp of self-pity. There is not enough time in a six-day turnaround when you are playing the European champions.

“We are probably lacking a bit of confidence at the moment. Confidence is a funny thing. It can only take a small thing to re-spark it or it can get knocked by a couple of things that don’t go your way. We have to get back to doing the things that we are good at which we didn’t see.”

Full article here

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby ... 2651.html

[BR]

Refocusing on what you're good at - that means continuing to work on Plan A and hope the opposition don't force you to implement Plan B.

When do they focus on what they are bad at? Or is he admitting that that list is just too big to even contemplate?

[Jetstream]

At least we won the Penalty count 15-6 and the Yellow card 1-0.
The hit by Currie on Lowry should have been some sort of offence.
We were rubbish but Raynal contributed.