Dan’s Not the Man.

[CIMANFOREVER]

Relax Crouchie-, the players and staff are hurting more- their p#ss is yellow sulphurous steam. Just everyone wait til next time etc learnings etc

They're butt hurt more than the myriad supporters who've pushed their hard earned cash up the wall to follow a team that can't be arsed but will take the money and run. Can Heaton- Harris slash their salaries and return it to the public purse for something worthwhile, like hospital beds, nurses and GPs who really earn a living .

[chunky]

I’d happily take a saffer style character led coaching tkt: I’d doubt they’d be an issue around basic d, set piece and breakdown. I’d also imagine there would be a direct honesty around poor standards.
The aim would be simple: a raise in standards, and young player development. No mediocre recontracting, young players will be backed over this at every occasion. Mediocrity poisons an environment.
Some of the money saved should be going to rugby development officers, and non traditional rugby pathways development.
I’ll happily take a 5/7yr journey but it starts with a clear plan, and a preparedness to upset the status quo, and saying goodbye to people. “Development” and “Accountability” would be key going forward.
The ulster board should come down on any rugby organisation that in any way disrupts this plan in Ulster….whether that a favoured club or school. Province above everything.

That's like saying everything Ulster do should be for the good of the Irish National Team, would not go down well with the clubs and schools.

I actually think part of the problem in Ulster is that most of the coaches, and players, at club level and in the Academy are all graduates of the "Ulster Way" - they are all told how to coach, what to coach, what way to play, and they all think the same way. Attend any Ulster rugby coaching course, and they are actually teaching coaches what shapes and patterns to use, what way to play the game, not teaching them how to coach and letting them come up with their own style. Then you get the Ulster Rugby Parrots coming into clubs and saying to coaches "no, you're doing it wrong, you have to do it this way, this is the way Dan McFarland wants it done". It's killing any innovation in young coaches.

Maybe young players and coaches should be encouraged to head off to SA, NZ and Oz between April and August to go and learn a different way, a different style, a different approach and then bring that back to their clubs for a bit of diversity in the way they play, are coached, attitudes and styles.

Look at the impact going to NZ had on O'Gara, he openly says it improved him multiples and totally challenged his ingrained ideas on rugby - this article is a belter - https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/sup ... -crusaders

Though if the rumours on McFarland are true, this is why Payne left and didn't come back - Payne challenged him too much, stood up to him and didn't like the micromanagement and Dan wasn't for changing!

[CIMANFOREVER]

Relax Crouchie-, the players and staff are hurting more- their p#ss is yellow sulphurous steam. Just everyone wait til next time etc learnings etc

They're butt hurt more than the myriad supporters who've p#shed their hard earned cash up the wall to follow a team that can't be arsed but will take the money and run. Can Heaton- Harris slash their salaries and return it to the public purse for something worthwhile, like hospital beds, nurses and GPs who really earn a living?

[jean valjean]

I remember Ogara talking about his time at the crusaders and how robertson would have something new each season for the team to focus on. It countered the 'tired of hearing the same message' staleness that creeps in. Certainly the 'fight for each inch' message has been lost at ulster; have the players stopped listening and when did Dan run out of ideas?

[promsandwich]

Dan has to go. I do know if they can afford to pay him off, but he was looking for a new job and it is clear that we need a new coach. We clearly don't have the players that Leinster have, but as far as I can see we have enough talent for the team to be performing at a higher level than it is, and the consistency is appalling. Also, for the first time in quite a number of years, we are producing some young forwards who look like they can become very good club players, even if they might not reach international standard.

In my view we have the talent to do better than we are doing at present.

Dn is not the only problem though. Our back play has regressed massively since Payne left. Defensively we are passive and disorganised. In attack, there are no discernible patterns that the players have been shown to allow them to maintain pressure. While our driving maul is decent, if it is stopped, there is little else. Bell has to go imo. He didn't do a great job last time he was here and I see no sign that things have improved.

I also get the feeling that the inconsistency in selection is detrimental to building a good team/squad ethos. There are young players who get a chance to come in and perform well and the next thing they disappear from the squad for a lengthy period of time for seemingly no reason. They ought to get a run of game time/partial game time to assist their development.

Recruitment - our interprovincial recruitment also seems to be lacking. Timoney has been great for us, but too many others seem to be players that other provinces just don't want. The players we do take don't seem to get a fair chance. Flannery gets too little game time to really show what he has and we all know that, occasional flashes aside, Burns is not the answer to any question. Similarly, we all know that Cooney is better than Doak, but Doak gets picked because we need a 9 in the future. It's all well and good trying to develop talent, and maybe Doak will be a top player, but we need to win games and Cooney ought to start imo.

Fundamentally the coaching ticket is the problem imo.

[justinr73]

Let’s please stop talking about conceding tries “in transition” (although I suspect not many of us on here use the phrase).

Call it what it is.

Conceding tries after we’ve given the f****** ball away again.

[Bobbievee]

I’m don’t have access to a replay , but where was our illustrious full back on the two “transition “ phases when the ball was kicked over our wingers heads?
Both RB and JS made a nonsense of it, but precious little support around for either of them.

[Columbo]

Frustrating thing is that after the last 2 years of chaos in the premiership, the Irish provincial sides are looking like pretty plum coaching jobs - good squads, decently funded and stable due to the union backing. The downsides are union heavy-handedness in international player selection management and the limits to NIQ recruitment. You can obviously earn more money in France, but the flip side there is loads of pressure and not much job security if things don’t go to plan (Dan would have been chopped about last March if we’d been a Top 14 side), but given the ongoing financial challenges that the English sides are facing, the Irish gigs look very attractive these days - so we would probably have some cracking candidates.

I was just watching the Netflix 6N thing, reminded me of how much I like Kieran Crowley, and what a cracking job he did with Benetton and then Italy. I’d forgotten how brutal their luck was last year, ended up with wooden spoon, but could very easily have had 4 wins with a couple of breaks.. Now there is a guy who IMO would be a huge upgrade on McFarland, to name but one..

[justinr73]

No WC hangover for the Italians in the URC this year; quite the opposite.

One could possibly be forgiven for thinking that they downed tools for KC at the WC?

[Columbo]

I think the Italian union shot themselves in the foot by announcing that his contract wouldn’t be renewed before the World Cup, which was absolutely crazy imo. Immediately turned him into a lame duck and robbed him of authority, while injecting uncertainty and instability into the camp as they headed into the tournament. Kind of tragic because Italy were so close last year to taking a number of scalps.

The Netflix thing is quite interesting I enjoyed it even though it wasn’t very in-depth or revelatory - one of the interesting things was the glimpses you got into the vibe in the various camps. The French camp seemed quite high-tension, high-stress, very much top-down management style - lots of Galthie, Edwards et al barking and lecturing while the group sat around grim-faced like schoolboys.

Scotland was somewhat more relaxed, Townsend and Tandy more collaborative - but underlying everything seemed to be a bit of a lack of confidence, which cost them in the big moments.

The Welsh camp was in chaos, and Gatland grimly playing the old tunes. Not sure in fairness you could learn anything from that campaign. And Borthwick desperately trying to play catch up with England.

But I thought the Irish camp just looked so good - high standards, and obviously a lot of pressure, but efforts to release the tension and enjoy it all. And Farrell manages to be a tough, hard-nosed b*****d but remains approachable. There’s also a high level of trust in the players. No wonder the players rave about it, I thought that the Irish camp won the vibes contest hands down..

The lesson I suppose is that there are many ways to be successful, looking at the very different approaches of Farrell and Galthie for example, but what they both have in common is they certainly command the respect of the players in their different ways.

Bringing it back to Ulster, I think that was true for Dan a few years ago - I certainly used to hang on every word - but not at all now. He seems to be trying to act as if nothing has changed, but his credibility is shot and I don’t think there’s any way to recover it. Ulster / IRFU need to tear off the sticking plaster before a stumble turns into a full-blown catastrophe

[justinr73]

NZ did the same and it didn’t appear to create an issue.

[HammerTime]

Frustrating thing is that after the last 2 years of chaos in the premiership, the Irish provincial sides are looking like pretty plum coaching jobs - good squads, decently funded and stable due to the union backing. The downsides are union heavy-handedness in international player selection management and the limits to NIQ recruitment. You can obviously earn more money in France, but the flip side there is loads of pressure and not much job security if things don’t go to plan (Dan would have been chopped about last March if we’d been a Top 14 side), but given the ongoing financial challenges that the English sides are facing, the Irish gigs look very attractive these days - so we would probably have some cracking candidates.

I was just watching the Netflix 6N thing, reminded me of how much I like Kieran Crowley, and what a cracking job he did with Benetton and then Italy. I’d forgotten how brutal their luck was last year, ended up with wooden spoon, but could very easily have had 4 wins with a couple of breaks.. Now there is a guy who IMO would be a huge upgrade on McFarland, to name but one..

Hopefully Humph had a word in McCalls ear at the reunion there.

[So It Is]

McCall leaving Sarries and turning down probably a host of quality job offers to come to Ulster, would be a akin to him leaving a high-end 6-figure job in London/New York to go work as a Level 4 Civil Servant job on 30k a year at County Hall in Ballymena.

Not. A. Chance.

[UlsterAreBrill]

McCall leaving Sarries and turning down probably a host of quality job offers to come to Ulster, would be a akin to him leaving a high-end 6-figure job in London/New York to go work as a Level 4 Civil Servant job on 30k a year at County Hall in Ballymena.

Not. A. Chance.

Bit of hyperbole there perhaps. Sarries are hardly lighting up the prem currently and IMO their current squad probably has peaked and will only be in decline over the next few years.

As far as things go Ulster actually have a very good squad who are underperforming massively, in some sense it is a poisoned chalice of a job in that historically it doesn’t go right for very many, or for a relatively short period of time but if a coach is confident he can get it right there is serious potential as far as the squad goes.

The other thing is, and just purely speculating, I doubt McCall is entirely motivated by money. I assume his salary changed somewhat when Sarries got relegated or at the very least he had offers for bigger pay packets elsewhere and obviously turned them all down.

[CIMANFOREVER]

McCall leaving Sarries and turning down probably a host of quality job offers to come to Ulster, would be a akin to him leaving a high-end 6-figure job in London/New York to go work as a Level 4 Civil Servant job on 30k a year at County Hall in Ballymena.

Not. A. Chance.

Bit of hyperbole there perhaps. Sarries are hardly lighting up the prem currently and IMO their current squad probably has peaked and will only be in decline over the next few years.

As far as things go Ulster actually have a very good squad who are underperforming massively, in some sense it is a poisoned chalice of a job in that historically it doesn’t go right for very many, or for a relatively short period of time but if a coach is confident he can get it right there is serious potential as far as the squad goes.

The other thing is, and just purely speculating, I doubt McCall is entirely motivated by money. I assume his salary changed somewhat when Sarries got relegated or at the very least he had offers for bigger pay packets elsewhere and obviously turned them all down.

A bit of hyperbole is forgivable given the hyperbole and hype Ulster have had swirling around them down through the last couple of decades, mostly from themselves or their cheerleaders/ shills in the press or on Bakebook etc. Totally disproportionate.

McCall no chance unless it was a stepping stone to Ireland imo. He owes us nothing for a harsh learning curve despite being Ulster to his core.

This Ulster team, when you break down age and injury profiles, is only strong on paper; paper never won anything sadly. Sarries I believe will rebuild quickly under Small.

Ulster have a significant tranche of senior players with only 1 or 2 years left or 1 injury away from retirement. Change is needed NOW.