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Re: Yet another iPhone....
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:32 pm
by Rovi Snave
BaggyTrousers wrote:Snipe Watson wrote:
What are your views on the size of our in goal areas?
I consider them barely adequate as currently delineated. That should set the tongues awaggin' Snipe.
I agree Baggy - still think they are less than 10 M - not enough room for the classic chip ahead for AT to score! - but we don't know because it looks like Pip forgot his tape measure
Re: Yet another iPhone....
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:56 pm
by Snipe Watson
Rovi ye ould rascal.
Baggy is a man of quantitative meticulousness. He will have no truck with your guestimate.............
Re: Yet another iPhone....
Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:15 am
by Shan
Well Baggy we can talk about any topic we like. It just takes someone to start. I wouldn't mind having a chat about singers. One singer in particular I would definitely like to have more than a chat with is Doda. Apart from other interesting things about her she also was found guilty on blasphemy(or offending religious sensibilities) charges and fined 5000PLN for remarking in a television interview that she believed more in dinosaurs than she did in the Bible because "it is hard to believe in something written by people who drank too much wine and smoked herbal cigarettes.
And this song is about never giving in and always being yourself against the odds. Nicer way of saying "f-ck 'em all" which is something she has no issue saying.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6y1INYz7HE
Oh yeah me likes.
Re: Yet another iPhone....
Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 10:27 pm
by Shan
Apple pay just 2% in tax in Ireland and some of their subsidiaries don't pay any tax in any country. The U.S is trying to crack down on this practice. In the current taxation environment Apple, and others, are not doing anything wrong. They are simply using the systems in place to their own benefit and reaping the rewards. They reckon about $25 billion in potential taxes has been lost over the last 3 years to the U.S economy. Of course our arrangement with Apple means we are losing considerably as well as they should be paying 12.5% in corporation tax. Then again they are employing almost 4k in Cork which is a hefty number.
One way to solve this type of issue is through uniformity in the corporation taxation system(not the rate, just the system itself) globally so that they can't register companies in the most attractive spots for their requirements. I can't really see that happening though as I wouldn't be sure it would be in the interest of plenty of countries.
http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/05 ... angements/
Ireland does appear to have a funny system whereby a company can be registered here but if they have no management structure they are not liable for corporation tax while in the USA it is all about where you are registered and nothing to do with the operational or management structure. It's class though where a company can have all their operations and management in the USA but be registered in Ireland and pay no corporation tax to either country.
Think the IFSC may have a similar arrangement(although I am no expert) as there's plenty of companies with registered offices there but actually no office and no employees. Of course there's plenty of companies in the IFSC as well which are fully operational there. Indeed Goldman Sachs pulled out of there because of too much regulation. Poor old Peter mustn't have the connections he once had.
Re: Yet another iPhone....
Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 8:58 am
by pwrmoore
While all the time those of us on PAYE pay full whack werever we work. Would love to see these large corporations get themselves a conscience and start paying a fair portion tax wherever they are operating. But sadly it's not going to happen and they will always cite the jobs they bring to any country they operate in as a reason why they should get special treatment.
Re: Yet another iPhone....
Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 9:37 am
by mikerob
Define "fair portion". Politicians around the world tweak national tax systems to encourage certain things so, surprise, surprise, that is what happens.
National insurance, which is in effect a job tax, brings in a lot more than corporation tax anyway, so you can understand why politicians play around with tax to encourage employment but it is hypocritical of them to complain about a system that they, themselves have created but politicians being hypocritical goes without saying.
You may know of a certain company that has its European HQ in Galway and that ain't because of the oyster festival or races...
If you were an employee of such a company, would you be lobbying the management to get a conscience and pay more taxes than the national tax laws say they need to? Or say, shut down the HQ in Galway and move to another country where they can pay more taxes to whatever the government is there?
Re: Yet another iPhone....
Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 10:45 am
by browner
I would lobby management to pay the tax that the national tax laws require of them.
Re: Yet another iPhone....
Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 11:06 am
by mikerob
browner wrote:I would lobby management to pay the tax that the national tax laws require of them.
That's the thing, in most of the cases being discussed in the news, they do pay the tax that the national tax laws require of them, so it isn't a case of laws being broken.
If a company has a choice of where to set up an HQ, unsurprisingly, many choose to set up in countries where the national tax laws require them to pay less than other countries.
That goes for rugby as well. It isn't a coincidence that Celtic League Limited, ERC Limited, Six Nations Rugby Limited, Rugby World Cup Limited and 2013 British Lions Limited are all headquartered in Ireland. Ireland has a tax exemption for eligible sporting bodies so all of these organisations pay 0% corporation tax.
Clearly, fans could lobby the Irish government to remove the tax exemption or lobby the organisations themselves to pay more tax even though the law says they don't need to, or relocate to a country with higher tax. Whether you want to boycott the competitions in the meantime is up to you.
Re: Yet another iPhone....
Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 1:06 pm
by browner
Yeah...it seems that the boycott is all the individual has left.
While no law has been broken I think they could be accused of sharp practice and the political class seem unwilling or unable to bring them into line.
Re: Yet another iPhone....
Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 1:33 pm
by mikerob
browner wrote:Yeah...it seems that the boycott is all the individual has left.
While no law has been broken I think they could be accused of sharp practice and the political class seem unwilling or unable to bring them into line.
The political class are responsible for creating tax laws with exemptions in the first place! Some of these are genuine loopholes and oversights and should get plugged, but others are deliberate decisions by politicians.
The theory behind many corporate tax exemptions is if it creates employment, then you raise more from employment taxes than you would from a higher rate of corporate tax AND you don't need to pay someone unemployment benefit.
So for example, the UK has tax exemptions for film production companies. Are the companies filming things like Game of Thrones or Star Wars in the UK guilty of sharp practice because they choose to film in a country where they will pay less tax?
Re: Yet another iPhone....
Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 1:58 pm
by browner
Mike...in one report I read, Apple have paid no corporate tax to any national government for 5 years.
I reckon the tax breaks for those film companies you mention is a way of encouraging that industry and the arts in general in the Uk...do you see these as similar?
I agree with you about the politians.
Re: Yet another iPhone....
Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 2:09 pm
by colind
I read somewhere recently that when the tax legislation is being drafted the Government brings in the 'experts' from the big companies to assist. Once completed they can then go back to their corporate clients with insider knowledge of the loopholes in the legislation they have helped to draw up.
You couldn't make it up.
Re: Yet another iPhone....
Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 3:51 pm
by mikerob
browner wrote:Mike...in one report I read, Apple have paid no corporate tax to any national government for 5 years.
I reckon the tax breaks for those film companies you mention is a way of encouraging that industry and the arts in general in the Uk...do you see these as similar?
I agree with you about the politians.
Apple paying no corporate tax isn't correct - they paid $6B in tax to the US government last year and are the single largest corporate taxpayer in that country. The issue some US politicians have with Apple in the US is because they have so many sales outside the US, they don't bring this money back into the US where it would be taxed at 35%. In Ireland it is taxed at 2%.
The Irish government has come up with their tax rates, exemptions for sporting organisations and the like to encourage employment in Ireland. I think the sports one was done for horseracing originally but then rugby has taken advantage of it. The problem is that one country's tax break to encourage employment is another country's tax evasion measure.
Re: Yet another iPhone....
Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 4:16 pm
by BaggyTrousers
Shan wrote:
Well Baggy we can talk about any topic we like. It just takes someone to start. I wouldn't mind having a chat about singers. One singer in particular I would definitely like to have more than a chat with is Doda. Apart from other interesting things about her she also was found guilty on blasphemy(or offending religious sensibilities) charges and fined 5000PLN for remarking in a television interview that she believed more in dinosaurs than she did in the Bible because "it is hard to believe in something written by people who drank too much wine and smoked herbal cigarettes.
And this song is about never giving in and always being yourself against the odds. Nicer way of saying "f-ck 'em all" which is something she has no issue saying.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6y1INYz7HE
Oh yeah me likes.
No idea hpw I missed this Shan, you'd be right to discuss thon wan to your heart's content. I share so many of her world views & fart in the face of blasphemy laws, probably the stupidest laws on any statute book.
Jehovah
There, I did it.
Re: Yet another iPhone....
Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 5:22 pm
by Shan
mikerob wrote:
The theory behind many corporate tax exemptions is if it creates employment, then you raise more from employment taxes than you would from a higher rate of corporate tax AND you don't need to pay someone unemployment benefit.
Indeed and in many ways it isn't that much different to grants allocations. The main difference being that the company manages to pay no tax on operations in other countries because they have registered in Ireland but carry out most of their operations across Europe or globally.
I'd have less of an issue with that, though I still think the companies should be contributing more, if the company is actually providing employment in the country, thereby generating both jobs, direct and indirect, and contributing to the exchequer.
In the case of Apple, outside of the paltry $10m or so in corpo tax they are contributing over $100m per year in employment related taxes. If you add in what is generated through indirect employment you could probably be looking at approx $150m. Not to mention the fact that probably in the region of 6k to 7k are in employment in the country because of that company.
My main issue is with the companies who are registered in Ireland but have no employees here and contribute nothing at all to Ireland and her exchequer. This should be locked down. Again though it is our Govt, rather than the companies themselves, who have facilitated this, more than likely for some personal gain. When you have former attorney generals leading Global financial companies with interests in Ireland and other EU countries and former Taoiseach's working as chairmen of the IFSC you just know not all is as it should be.
Some of those IFSC companies suggested prior to registering they would eventually be making use of their office space and emoloying people but in many cases this has not happened. This needs to be reviewed as it is clearly a stroke...well in my opinion of course.