Will Ulster be wearing Poppies

rocky · Post by **rocky** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:08 pm

The thing that upsets me is that, over the last decade roughly, the whole poppy thing has been hijacked by both government and the media and has become a political issue in the sense that, for example, no-one can go on TV without one and now we have huge pressure on sporting teams to wear them, or rather have them embroidered on their strips and even boots, no doubt at great expense. It would be far better, I think, if they gave all of that money to the people who need it. What will happen now if, for example, one of the Arab League national teams turns up at a September match wanting to wear some symbol that "commemorates" the Twin Towers event? The whole thing has gone mad and we need to bring it back to some sensible level without effectively forcing people to do something they may know little about or be embarrassed or reluctant to do. I speak as someone who has been, by intention, to the WWI battlefields and memorials and found it a very emotional experience. The saddest thing for me is that we, ie the human race, appear to have learned absolutely nothing from all the waste of life that is commemorated there.

Snipe Watson · Post by **Snipe Watson** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:24 am

I am on the record as having a massive problem with flags and emblems in rugby and the insensitivity of the IRFU in their handling of or opting out of handling contentious issues.
The poppy, like the shamrock, is not political, sectarian or in any way offensive to anyone except those who wish to score points by choosing to be ‘offended’.

Rooster · Post by **Rooster** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:35 am

WW2 veteran on BBC Breakfast this morning, he wears a poppy but said he also knows others who put the money in the box and don't wear one as while they support the cause prefer to remember those who died in their own private ways, he respects both views.
Thought the soccer teams etc should be down to individual players whether they wear a poppy or not and not a team managers decision.

mikerob · Post by **mikerob** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:43 am

Snipe Watson wrote: The poppy, like the shamrock, is not political, sectarian or in any way offensive to anyone except those who wish to score points by choosing to be ‘offended’.

Not quite Snipe. Legally the red poppy is a registered trademark of the Royal British Legion. The RBL get on the case of anyone else using the symbol to raise money for other charities. The red poppy therefore isn't totally free of "attachments" - it is the primary fund raising symbol of one specific charity. I think there will be a number of people who have no problem with the poppy as a generic symbol of remembrance but for whatever reason, don't want to donate their money to the Royal British Legion.

pwrmoore · Post by **pwrmoore** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:56 am

Snipe Watson wrote:I am on the record as having a massive problem with flags and emblems in rugby and the insensitivity of the IRFU in their handling of or opting out of handling contentious issues.
The poppy, like the shamrock, is not political, sectarian or in any way offensive to anyone except those who wish to score points by choosing to be ‘offended’.

While all the above is true Snipe I think there are also those who wear the poppy as a deliberate act of provocation as they believe that is does offend a certain section of the community. There are also paramilitaries and ex-paramilitaries who attempt to associate themselves with the poppy and in the process desecrate the memory of those who gave their lives for all of us.

mikerob · Post by **mikerob** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:47 pm

pwrmoore wrote:There are also paramilitaries and ex-paramilitaries who attempt to associate themselves with the poppy and in the process desecrate the memory of those who gave their lives for all of us.

+ nutcases like the English Defence League.

The English tabloid press haven't helped here, creating their own political correctness regarding the poppy and whipping up a storm regarding people wearing it, or not wearing it.

Snipe Watson · Post by **Snipe Watson** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:36 pm

You will get some dip-end to politicise anything.

HwoodMike2umate · Post by **HwoodMike2umate** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:59 pm

Well, even if the team dont wear poppies on saturday, maybe a compromise solution would be for Cheerleaders dressed only in poppies putting on a wee show with some imitation weaponary thrown in for good measure.
As Martin L. King once said on the 11th November ................................

darkside lightside · Post by **darkside lightside** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:07 pm

Snipe Watson wrote:You will get some dip-end to politicise anything.

That's for sure..

Rooster · Post by **Rooster** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:03 pm

Last post and silence before Quins v Connacht

BaggyTrousers · Post by **BaggyTrousers** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:12 am

Was passing through the square in Comber yesterday morning at 11am on my way to but a puppy in Saintfield. There were maybe 30 souls at the war memorial and at least twice as many again stood still around the pavements on the square. R5Live on in the car and observing the 2 minute silence. Haven't felt quite so emotional about the whole thing for a few years, wasn't far from tears.

My family has never lost anyone in the various wars but having my grandfather's medals including the Mons Star I know he was "in harms way" around the worst period of WW1. Makes you think how easily my family mightn't have been here now & obviously that goes for many many families. Takes a pretty unreasonable mind not to show some respect for the people who have found themselves in those situation, hundreds of thousands of whom were not so lucky. Most of them were conscripted to the best of my knowledge, not people making a decision for any political reason.

No one has to give up one iota of their political views to merely show respect for ordinary men who were needlessly slaughtered wholesale.

rocky · Post by **rocky** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:37 pm

Baggy, there was no conscription in Ireland during WWI. All were volunteers. The difference was that those from the South, influenced by Redmond, thought they were fighting so that the government would grant home rule for the whole of Ireland at the end of the war, whereas those from the North were fighting so that the Northern counties would stay within the UK. Lloyd George did plan to introduce conscription to Ireland in 1918 but backed away from this at the last minute.

Rooster · Post by **Rooster** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:24 pm

rocky wrote:Baggy, there was no conscription in Ireland during WWI. All were volunteers. The difference was that those from the South, influenced by Redmond, thought they were fighting so that the government would grant home rule for the whole of Ireland at the end of the war, whereas those from the North were fighting so that the Northern counties would stay within the UK. Lloyd George did plan to introduce conscription to Ireland in 1918 but backed away from this at the last minute.

True rocky they were volunteers but the pressure put on by the public at the time meant that some who volunteered did so because of those around them more than their own free will

Cap'n Grumpy · Post by **Cap'n Grumpy** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:23 am

I feared for many years that acts of remembrance were taking on less meaning and would eventually wither away to a relatively small few as fewer and fewer survived having remembered what went before, or having lost loved ones in the services.

I'm pleased that my fears were ungrounded (although perhaps this is due to the number of casualties being taken in Afghanistan and the publicity etc).

My daughter is a teacher in a school which offered the opportunity for lessons to be suspended at 11.00am yesterday morning. The pupils normally wear their uniforms in the most haphazard way possible and rebel at any given opportunity(didn't we all?) - but yesterday just before the 11.00am silence they asked permission to stop and when granted, they stood up, buttoned up blazers, straightened ties etc so that they could observe the silence more respectfully - something they then did impeccably for two minutes.

My faith in the next generation is renewed

BaggyTrousers · Post by **BaggyTrousers** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:44 pm

Rooster wrote:
rocky wrote:Baggy, there was no conscription in Ireland during WWI. All were volunteers. The difference was that those from the South, influenced by Redmond, thought they were fighting so that the government would grant home rule for the whole of Ireland at the end of the war, whereas those from the North were fighting so that the Northern counties would stay within the UK. Lloyd George did plan to introduce conscription to Ireland in 1918 but backed away from this at the last minute.
True rocky they were volunteers but the pressure put on by the public at the time meant that some who volunteered did so because of those around them more than their own free will

Just back to this thread after overdosing on HC over the weekend. Maybe didn't make it clear Rocky but I was talking about the generality of War dead rather than Irish, North & South.I think there is something in the conscription by public opinion theory but certainly there were many volunteers of conviction I am quite sure and I don't believe there was quite the same attitude of "canonfodder" about the WW2 battles as the madness of the Somme & the likes where 10000 men to gain 100 yards seemed about par for the course.

My father was a southern volunteer during WW2 as matter of conviction as a reaction to Fascism and there were many like him despite Ireland's neutrality. I am no expert but my feeling is that those who volunteered in WW2 were doing so in a slightly better informed position than the previous generation or two. Never should it be forgotten either that many many guys have become soldiers rather than stay in impoverished communities with few prospects.

The UAFC