Midfield Dilemma

[Spiffsson]

Joe has been generous with his praise of Luke-ma, and has indicated that he now may challenge Henshaw for the 12 shirt. I am sick sore and tired of expressing my opinion of Lukkie's rugby skills here (possibly others are too), so I now wearily accept that in Joe's book he is a top bloke, and won't bother anymore. However, Henshaw is Ireland's best midfielder by some distance. To suggest that Fitz could displace him is lunacy. Now if he had suggested that Fitz might displace the leaden-footed Payne, you might have given it some credence. Whatever - Cave is now clearly consigned to a bit-part in this RWC. He will get a run out with the reserves v. Romania, but it will not matter one iota how he performs and it is likely to be his only appearance in the competition. Likewise, I feel pretty sure we will not see Earls, who played very well at 13 in the first warmup game, playing in midfield again and the big game selection will be from Henshaw/Payne/Fitz. Good luck Joe.
BTW - Joe has not tried Luke-ma at 10 yet. Doesn't seem fair to the lad, does it.

[Snipe Watson]

Joe has been generous with his praise of Luke-ma, and has indicated that he now may challenge Henshaw for the 12 shirt. I am sick sore and tired of expressing my opinion of Lukkie's rugby skills here (possibly others are too), so I now wearily accept that in Joe's book he is a top bloke, and won't bother anymore. However, Henshaw is Ireland's best midfielder by some distance. To suggest that Fitz could displace him is lunacy. Now if he had suggested that Fitz might displace the leaden-footed Payne, you might have given it some credence. Whatever - Cave is now clearly consigned to a bit-part in this RWC. He will get a run out with the reserves v. Romania, but it will not matter one iota how he performs and it is likely to be his only appearance in the competition. Likewise, I feel pretty sure we will not see Earls, who played very well at 13 in the first warmup game, playing in midfield again and the big game selection will be from Henshaw/Payne/Fitz. Good luck Joe.
BTW - Joe has not tried Luke-ma at 10 yet. Doesn't seem fair to the lad, does it.

Spiffers it's just coach platitudes. Fitzgerald is a player who needs support and Joe's giving him public support. Do you really think that he is actually challenging Henshaw? Robbie is the best outside back in Ireland and everyone who isn't a plank knows it.

[OneMore]

Joe has been generous with his praise of Luke-ma, and has indicated that he now may challenge Henshaw for the 12 shirt. I am sick sore and tired of expressing my opinion of Lukkie's rugby skills here (possibly others are too), so I now wearily accept that in Joe's book he is a top bloke, and won't bother anymore. However, Henshaw is Ireland's best midfielder by some distance. To suggest that Fitz could displace him is lunacy. Now if he had suggested that Fitz might displace the leaden-footed Payne, you might have given it some credence. Whatever - Cave is now clearly consigned to a bit-part in this RWC. He will get a run out with the reserves v. Romania, but it will not matter one iota how he performs and it is likely to be his only appearance in the competition. Likewise, I feel pretty sure we will not see Earls, who played very well at 13 in the first warmup game, playing in midfield again and the big game selection will be from Henshaw/Payne/Fitz. Good luck Joe.
BTW - Joe has not tried Luke-ma at 10 yet. Doesn't seem fair to the lad, does it.

Spiffers it's just coach platitudes. Fitzgerald is a player who needs support and Joe's giving him public support. Do you really think that he is actually challenging Henshaw? Robbie is the best outside back in Ireland and everyone who isn't a plank knows it.

But, but, but... Rob Kearney!

[loosehead1984]

Spiffier...there is no midfield dilemma, Facefitz spends most of his time on the wing anyway. Problem sorted

[thecrouch]

Joseph singled out Jordi Murphy for praise after the Wales game at Landsdowne Road, despite the fact that Murphy spent the entire match being eaten alive by Tipuric and showed only that he will never be an international 7.

What a coach says to the media is nonsense. If a coach told the media it was raining outside they would be best advised to stick their head out the window and make sure.

[Spiffsson]

Thank you all for those responses. You have set my mind at ease. I now rest secure in the knowledge that Joe is talking balllocks and won't be selecting Fitz at 12 any more.

Eh, are ye sure about that?

[thecrouch]

He will probably continue to select him at 12 in future in some cases, but I would be very surprised to see him displace Henshaw in any game of importance.

[BaggyTrousers]

All very well dismissing coach speak but it's more coach actions that worry me.

Today was no test whatsoever but did Fitzuseless do any single thing that made any difference whatsoever in that game? FibberJoe is congratulating him publicly, and for what? For being able to make a successful pass to Dave Kearney.

The fact is Fibber selected him in what was a full strength team to take on a hopeless bundle of crap, Canada. He also selected him, not in the weak team v Wales but again in a pretty strong team & at 13.

Fitzgerald was most obvious today hanging around the fringes of rucks doing absolutely nothing mostly. I watched him at one point early in the 2nd half, he inspected the ruck then when Canada spread the ball wide & left he made absolutely no effort to get back in the defensive line, he sauntered, nay dandered backwards and nowhere close to getting in midfield.

Such things matter little on a day when you are against 15 dustbins, it'll matter against better teams, Italy even.

Henshaw may be worse than Ireland are happy to admit, and if Fibber puts Fitzgerald in the centre against Italy or France I will be at the very end of a short tether with the man.

Jared Payne on the other hand is a man you can't fault on workrate. His only let down today was his two abysmal kicks, one for an own try, the other a waste of a massive space when Sexton picked him out with a cross kick. Nice try off Quiff's break.

[Spiffsson]

He will probably continue to select him at 12 in future in some cases, but I would be very surprised to see him displace Henshaw in any game of importance.

I would not be too surprised to see Fitz/Henshaw at 12/13 (or vice versa) Might even be a better option than Payne/Henshaw. I have never been that fond of Payne in the centre. Good enough defence but does not bring much to attack. I don't suppose we will ever see a Henshaw/Cave combo but might be interesting.

[Shan]

I would not be too surprised to see Fitz/Henshaw at 12/13 (or vice versa) Might even be a better option than Payne/Henshaw. I have never been that fond of Payne in the centre. Good enough defence but does not bring much to attack. I don't suppose we will ever see a Henshaw/Cave combo but might be interesting.

I cannot see Joe leaving Payne out. Payne is his defensive lynchpin in midfield and Joe likes that and wants that. I didn't think Payne had his best day today, apart from the kicking episode I felt he was not quite at his usual standard in terms of tackling. He still got the job done mind but not as decisively as he usually does. A slight blip for sure as it is the first time ever in an Ireland jersey he has slipped under the high standard he has set IMO.

Agree with Baggy on his workrate. Folk can make claims about Payne in terms of creativity if they like but he is an honest hard working player and a very good one.

[Shan]

The interesting thing now is what happens v Romania. If Joe thinks Henshaw needs gametime he may be then committing himself to playing him in at least 4 games in a row.

[Spiffsson]

All very well dismissing coach speak but it's more coach actions that worry me.

Today was no test whatsoever but did Fitzuseless do any single thing that made any difference whatsoever in that game? FibberJoe is congratulating him publicly, and for what? For being able to make a successful pass to Dave Kearney.

The fact is Fibber selected him in what was a full strength team to take on a hopeless bundle of crap, Canada. He also selected him, not in the weak team v Wales but again in a pretty strong team & at 13.

Fitzgerald was most obvious today hanging around the fringes of rucks doing absolutely nothing mostly. I watched him at one point early in the 2nd half, he inspected the ruck then when Canada spread the ball wide & left he made absolutely no effort to get back in the defensive line, he sauntered, nay dandered backwards and nowhere close to getting in midfield.

Such things matter little on a day when you are against 15 dustbins, it'll matter against better teams, Italy even.

Henshaw may be worse than Ireland are happy to admit, and if Fibber puts Fitzgerald in the centre against Italy or France I will be at the very end of a short tether with the man.

Jared Payne on the other hand is a man you can't fault on workrate. His only let down today was his two abysmal kicks, one for an own try, the other a waste of a massive space when Sexton picked him out with a cross kick. Nice try off Quiff's break.

I agree. I don't fault Payne on workrate at all. But I don't rate him as much of an attacking force who is going to make something exciting happen in midfield. I know Joe loves him. I know he's a good defender and will not let down the team. He is very competent but a bit ordinary. He is to Ireland something like Brad Barritt is to England. Maybe we have nobody better to represent Ireland at 13 - though I believe that given a decent run of games (as Payne as had) Cave or Earls could do the job. And of course,now there is Fitz too. I never did get the rationale behind fast tracking Payne, a very good FB for Ulster, into the Ireland 13 slot when we had Henshaw, and still don't. And Bags - it's not long ago that you preached the same line.
Yes, it was a nice try off Quiffy's break today, but I would have expected any half decent centre doing his job to be on Quiffy's shoulder for that pass against a totally knackered Canuk defence.
Maybe I'm being too hard on the lad, and should not single him out , since the play of all of Ireland's threequarter line leaves much to be desired. Compare their performance yesterday against a soft Canada with that of the dynamic but relatively unknown Japanese backs against the mighty Boks. Chalk and cheese. I'd love us to play more creative running rugby, but am not sure we have the players to do it, and Joe prefers the safety first approach anyway.

[BaggyTrousers]

I would not be too surprised to see Fitz/Henshaw at 12/13 (or vice versa) Might even be a better option than Payne/Henshaw. I have never been that fond of Payne in the centre. Good enough defence but does not bring much to attack. I don't suppose we will ever see a Henshaw/Cave combo but might be interesting.

I cannot see Joe leaving Payne out. Payne is his defensive lynchpin in midfield and Joe likes that and wants that. I didn't think Payne had his best day today, apart from the kicking episode I felt he was not quite at his usual standard in terms of tackling. He still got the job done mind but not as decisively as he usually does. A slight blip for sure as it is the first time ever in an Ireland jersey he has slipped under the high standard he has set IMO.

Agree with Baggy on his workrate. Folk can make claims about Payne in terms of creativity if they like but he is an honest hard working player and a very good one.

Hey you, it's my job to pick holes in Payne's play, not yours. Believe it are not I think you are slightly harsh on him I thought he was good other than the kicks, of course in an undemanding contest.

I would be shocked if Fibber demoted him for a meaningful game, just won't happen, not even to facilitate the apple of Fibber's eye, Zoolander.

[rumncoke]

No coach, worth anything, is going to rubbish a player in front of the media he may rubbish a performance in general terms, such as "we defended badly too many players dropped off tackles ... we failed to assert ourselfs at the breakdown , dropped to many passes " etc but come out and say "Sexton had a bad game ,PoM failed to tackle his opposite number or Toner was watching the action all afternoon" those comments are made on the day after to the player ONLY if your a crap coach .

Good coaches don't talk in negatives

[BaggyTrousers]

Spiffer's old boy, are you suggesting that I'm not anti-Payne enough for you? Do you want me to lie about his performance and say how crap he is?

In this respect I am the Roy Walker of UAFC, my catchphrase being "say what you see".

Meanwhile I hold true to my conviction that he is a pale shadow at centre of the full back he is/was but I'm addressing the current situation. I disagree with you on Earls at 13. Yesterday he may have had a field day in the centre but his defence in the centre is proven to be not quite up to it when it matters, he's a talented player and very fine winger - though of course not as good as the GLU, nor Tommy if he would get his finger out.

Back with Payne, I see nothing wrong with having a solid rather than spectacular player at 13 after all few have described Conrad Smith as spectacular, yet I find him marvellous to watch and abundantly talented at his wide range of skills.

My dislike of Payne at 13 has always been based on considering his talent wasted there and of course the fact that I don't consider him the best 13 at Ulster by a wide margin. Fibber sees him as his best 13 or the Henshaw partnership his best centre combination much as, in the same vein, I don't consider 12 Henshaw's best position. However if it works it works.

The same is clearly not true of the apple of Fibber's eye. He is not in any shape or form proven as remotely competent in the centre or anywhere else for that matter. Yesterday did nothing to suggest him as a genuine option at centre in a big match.

Of course Cave is lingering like a bad smell in the background, supposedly valued for this situation, but overlooked for Mexican interests. Darren must be incredibly strong mentally, a proven centre of ability with Ulster and not as some suggest just a solid well organised player, he has a cutting edge, how else could he be Ulster's fourth highest try scorer of all time and the highest try scoring non-winger for the province? I very much doubt he will ever get a fair chance to prove himself for Ireland, the implication of this weeks selection being that Fibber has forgotten why he selected Cave in the first place, just for love, Mexican love, the worst sort.