Crisis or chronic illness??

[justinr73]

I can’t imagine they have any influence in that respect.

You would, however, expect a board to be approving budgets and holding Bryn, subject to the exact structure, and certainly Petrie to account but the potential difference here would be the involvement of the IRFU, whatever that may be.

[thecrouch]

This thread got me to wonder about the exact management structure of UR, to whom does DMF answer? There appears to be a Professional Game Management commitee, PGM. Can anyone confirm that this is listed on the UR website as;

Management Committee

Chairman P Terrington, President G Leslie, P Gregg, D Gardiner, M Boyd, G Irwin, CW Watson, S Black, J McKibbin, E Graham, J Petrie.

If the above is the board supervising the pro game then a cursory look at the CV's of a number of the members would suggest that they should be capable of executive managent of a major enterprise. It is hardly likely that they arrived in their current professional roles without being able to deliver a high level of performance, setting KPI's and targets, making changes and tough calls to keep their respective businesses on target. Now I know the argument will be made that pro sport is different to most businesses but I would argue that the same core skills, principles and practices still apply.
In that case it seems astounding that year after year we never see UR building and getting stronger, certainly not with regard to silverware. More startling would appear to be the continued trend to sign, or more specifically allowing signing to continue, of dud after dud. If i repeatedly fecked up repeatedly in the same manner it wouldn't be long before changes were made by the MD.

Any answers people

I would have thought DMF is accountable to Bryn Cunningham who is head of Rugby Operations, which is our version of a director of rugby. Bryn then in turn accountable to Petrie as CEO.

I would have thought this management committee would be more focused on Ulster Rugby as a business and rather than being involved in day to day rugby decisions.

[horslips]

This thread got me to wonder about the exact management structure of UR, to whom does DMF answer? There appears to be a Professional Game Management commitee, PGM. Can anyone confirm that this is listed on the UR website as;

Management Committee

Chairman P Terrington, President G Leslie, P Gregg, D Gardiner, M Boyd, G Irwin, CW Watson, S Black, J McKibbin, E Graham, J Petrie.

If the above is the board supervising the pro game then a cursory look at the CV's of a number of the members would suggest that they should be capable of executive managent of a major enterprise. It is hardly likely that they arrived in their current professional roles without being able to deliver a high level of performance, setting KPI's and targets, making changes and tough calls to keep their respective businesses on target. Now I know the argument will be made that pro sport is different to most businesses but I would argue that the same core skills, principles and practices still apply.
In that case it seems astounding that year after year we never see UR building and getting stronger, certainly not with regard to silverware. More startling would appear to be the continued trend to sign, or more specifically allowing signing to continue, of dud after dud. If i repeatedly fecked up repeatedly in the same manner it wouldn't be long before changes were made by the MD.

Any answers people

I would have thought DMF is accountable to Bryn Cunningham who is head of Rugby Operations, which is our version of a director of rugby. Bryn then in turn accountable to Petrie as CEO.

I would have thought this management committee would be more focused on Ulster Rugby as a business and rather than being involved in day to day rugby decisions.

Well the last bit is what confuses me. Talent a plenty to manage the operation but in effect little seems to change. It does feel like your point about BC and JP is the most likely senario but by god it doesn't work.

[Columbo]

Tbh we are now in the era of the ‘IRFU performance director’ or whatever Nucifora’s job title is, and my suspicion is that regardless of what the various provincial committees may or may not think, the shots are called squarely by him and his honchos..

In any case, ulster to win today, and follow it up by going 3/3 against Connacht, Munster & Benetton, you heard it here first!!

[Columbo]

[Dave]

It's terminal.

[Columbo]

I think we have our answer, barring a second half miracle - it’s both chronic, and a crisis

[Dave]

In a chronic state of crisis. Needs putting down.

[Jackie Brown]

Petrie says it's everyone else's fault.

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[for dog and ulcer]

Petrie says it's everyone else's fault.

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Never mind. As long as the carol service is still on.

[Jackie Brown]

Are we brill again?

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[for dog and ulcer]

Yes, Ulster are brill again.

[Columbo]

I'm finding it hard to gather my thoughts - perhaps due to the strong Belgian beer I was quaffing to take the pain away during the match - but nonetheless here's my best attempt at saying what my (muddled) thoughts are:

1) Dan McFarland is pretty much a hero to me. Since day 1 he has been a cut above every other Ulster coach in my living memory (and I am ancient, at 44!!) In so many aspects of the game - lineout, maul, defence, breakdown - under him Ulster have never been better. I do believe that at some stage, every side benefits from fresh leadership, but I can't say that I think that we are anywhere near that point with Dan & Ulster

However

2) the 160 mins of game time between the 22-3 lead in Dublin, and the 0-29 HT deficit today were just shocking. Genuinely shocking. In a way that can't be shrugged off. Completely inept attack, shambolic defence, misfiring set piece, absence of leadership. If this was just 'one of those things', that every good side - Leinster, Saracens, Toulouse etc - went through every so often then fine, but it isn't. I have never seen anything comparable from any good side. I watched Munster last week against Toulouse - top of the top 14, 9 points ahead of La Rochelle - and far from being hammered from the off, they took the lead, and ran them close all the way to the end. And Munster are a poor team at the minute. But the sad fact is that they have more fight and bottle in them than we do, and I can't conceive in a month of Sundays of them taking the beatings we have taken in the last 3 games

3) reversion to the long-time Irish rugby default position of lauding 'heroic losses' is not acceptable. Already I'm seeing this all across Irish rugby twitter 'oh what an awesome result for Ulster after that first half', sorry no, I don't buy it. For one thing, La Rochelle are ludicrously over-rated in Ireland, because they've beaten Leinster twice (and the second time was a dire loss by Leinster IMO), for another you can't simply memory-hole a 29 point HT deficit because of a bit of a fightback in the second half. Watch Danty grinning and shrugging as he's yellow-carded - the game was in the bag, and ROG / La Rochelle couldn't give a f**k if Ulster get a bonus point or two, we were never winning that game.

4) another game where we concede over 35 points. That's now 5 out of 10 this season. Appalling. Unacceptable.

So where the hell does that leave us? I've no doubt that Dan et al will want to go balls out now against Connacht and try to win the next 3 games, and paper over the cracks. OK fine, I want that to happen too (and I believe it can) - but until we have a proper reckoning with what has caused us to absolutely implode in the last few weeks, then we are absolutely no closer to winning clutch matches against good sides, and therefore no chance of getting any silverware once again.

What does a proper reckoning look like? I really don't know. Do the current attack & defence coaches need to up their game (yes)? Or be replaced? Does selection have to change? (I will say that Stewart and McCann both suggested this afternoon that they should have seen more game time up until now...)

[Cockatrice]

It’s official we are brill again that second half performance will paper over every and any crack in the past two weeks two months two years… all good and probably still the best back line in Europe

[Jackie Brown]

I'm finding it hard to gather my thoughts - perhaps due to the strong Belgian beer I was quaffing to take the pain away during the match - but nonetheless here's my best attempt at saying what my (muddled) thoughts are:

1) Dan McFarland is pretty much a hero to me. Since day 1 he has been a cut above every other Ulster coach in my living memory (and I am ancient, at 44!!) In so many aspects of the game - lineout, maul, defence, breakdown - under him Ulster have never been better. I do believe that at some stage, every side benefits from fresh leadership, but I can't say that I think that we are anywhere near that point with Dan & Ulster

However

2) the 160 mins of game time between the 22-3 lead in Dublin, and the 0-29 HT deficit today were just shocking. Genuinely shocking. In a way that can't be shrugged off. Completely inept attack, shambolic defence, misfiring set piece, absence of leadership. If this was just 'one of those things', that every good side - Leinster, Saracens, Toulouse etc - went through every so often then fine, but it isn't. I have never seen anything comparable from any good side. I watched Munster last week against Toulouse - top of the top 14, 9 points ahead of La Rochelle - and far from being hammered from the off, they took the lead, and ran them close all the way to the end. And Munster are a poor team at the minute. But the sad fact is that they have more fight and bottle in them than we do, and I can't conceive in a month of Sundays of them taking the beatings we have taken in the last 3 games

3) reversion to the long-time Irish rugby default position of lauding 'heroic losses' is not acceptable. Already I'm seeing this all across Irish rugby twitter 'oh what an awesome result for Ulster after that first half', sorry no, I don't buy it. For one thing, La Rochelle are ludicrously over-rated in Ireland, because they've beaten Leinster twice (and the second time was a dire loss by Leinster IMO), for another you can't simply memory-hole a 29 point HT deficit because of a bit of a fightback in the second half. Watch Danty grinning and shrugging as he's yellow-carded - the game was in the bag, and ROG / La Rochelle couldn't give a f**k if Ulster get a bonus point or two, we were never winning that game.

4) another game where we concede over 35 points. That's now 5 out of 10 this season. Appalling. Unacceptable.

So where the hell does that leave us? I've no doubt that Dan et al will want to go balls out now against Connacht and try to win the next 3 games, and paper over the cracks. OK fine, I want that to happen too (and I believe it can) - but until we have a proper reckoning with what has caused us to absolutely implode in the last few weeks, then we are absolutely no closer to winning clutch matches against good sides, and therefore no chance of getting any silverware once again.

What does a proper reckoning look like? I really don't know. Do the current attack & defence coaches need to up their game (yes)? Or be replaced? Does selection have to change? (I will say that Stewart and McCann both suggested this afternoon that they should have seen more game time up until now...)

+1

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