End of the road for Dan??

[Bart S]

My view :-

Last season - we lost 2 knockout ties we weren't expected to win at the outset. Won 4/4 in the heiny group stage, played some good rugby and saw Hume, Lowry, Marcus as 1st xv players with progress in others. Yes, it was gutting to lose both knockout games given the positions we got into but with a bit more luck, mental fortitude and continued player development there were reasons for some optimism.

This season - scraped into the last 16. Whilst we were maybe unlucky to get Toulouse last year having won 4/4 we got what we deserved with Leinster away.
As for the league, we'll the top 1 or 2 can win away but we should be beating others at home and a home qf vs Connacht is as good a draw as we'll ever get. It's the kind of game we should be winning 9/10 times and the loss is due to a red card, awful weather etc. The fact is that Ulster were completely outplayed and the scoreline flattered them. More players have regressed than kicked on.
Not winning and as Rum says, playing boring rugby is not a great combination.

Of course we have no chance against a fully loaded Leinster but this will be 2 years in a row where they won't have won the league and we had realistic chances of a home final. This year was the easiest path we could have asked for and barely fired a shot.

[shamalicious]

My view :-

Last season - we lost 2 knockout ties we weren't expected to win at the outset. Won 4/4 in the heiny group stage, played some good rugby and saw Hume, Lowry, Marcus as 1st xv players with progress in others. Yes, it was gutting to lose both knockout games given the positions we got into but with a bit more luck, mental fortitude and continued player development there were reasons for some optimism.

This season - scraped into the last 16. Whilst we were maybe unlucky to get Toulouse last year having won 4/4 we got what we deserved with Leinster away.
As for the league, we'll the top 1 or 2 can win away but we should be beating others at home and a home qf vs Connacht is as good a draw as we'll ever get. It's the kind of game we should be winning 9/10 times and the loss is due to a red card, awful weather etc. The fact is that Ulster were completely outplayed and the scoreline flattered them. More players have regressed than kicked on.
Not winning and as Rum says, playing boring rugby is not a great combination.

Of course we have no chance against a fully loaded Leinster but this will be 2 years in a row where they won't have won the league and we had realistic chances of a home final. This year was the easiest path we could have asked for and barely fired a shot.

This is where my head is at as well, Bart. Recent results in the league flattered to deceive against teams we should have nilled. Just looked like their heads and hearts weren't in it against Connacht at all. Something is not right.

[Columbo]

Something definitely not right... I heard that players who have been at the club for years, including through lots of chaos, were saying that the atmosphere and morale from the Sale away game onwards has been absolutely rock-bottom and worse than anything previous..

Dan's argument is that when he came in, Ulster had been more or less chaotic and dysfunctional for years, and badly needed proper discipline and structure imposed - which is true. He would also say that he achieved that, which is also true IMO. He would also say that there was an issue with a few big-name players who pretty much ran the place and did what they wanted to a large extent - and that is also true!! And he would argue that this isn't desirable, that no player is bigger than the club, and that as the buck stops with the head coach, then he has to have the final say when it comes to calling the shots. And I would agree.

I think that the problem is that this is now ancient history. Under him Ulster had 3 season of stability and progression, the environment had become much more professional, and all of the big shot players have retired. So far from having a problem with too much player power, we now have a problem with too little! We have no natural leaders, and the guys who have come through in the last few years have done so in a heavily top-down environment totally dominated by the head coach - and since Jared moved on, there aren't even any foils in the coaching staff (Jared would have stood his ground, whereas Bell and Soper are under his thumb).

But Dan only knows one way, so we're stuck fighting yesterday's battles. And that has resulted in the wheels coming off in a big way this season. And while every pre-season offers the chance for a reset, and Kitshoff and Ewers are great signings, I can't get away from the feeling that Dan was the man for the job in 2018, but isn't the man for the job now. Interesting that we don't hear much about 'fight for every inch' any more - because the team so patently doesn't, that is long gone. So if we don't have any dog, then what do we have? A ton of talented backs who may as well not be on the park, because tactically the coaching group is so off the pace

I know Bristol have had a ropy old season, but I would love to see what Pat Lam, or even better Jamie Joseph / Tony Brown, could unleash... Unfortunately that's dreamland because unless McFarland leaves of his own accord, we can't afford to get rid of him (thanks to Petrie, we can't even afford to complete a squad for next season...) So it's fingers crossed and hope for the best, and when has that ever failed to work out for Ulster??

[Lurgan Lad]

Something definitely not right... I heard that players who have been at the club for years, including through lots of chaos, were saying that the atmosphere and morale from the Sale away game onwards has been absolutely rock-bottom and worse than anything previous..

Dan's argument is that when he came in, Ulster had been more or less chaotic and dysfunctional for years, and badly needed proper discipline and structure imposed - which is true. He would also say that he achieved that, which is also true IMO. He would also say that there was an issue with a few big-name players who pretty much ran the place and did what they wanted to a large extent - and that is also true!! And he would argue that this isn't desirable, that no player is bigger than the club, and that as the buck stops with the head coach, then he has to have the final say when it comes to calling the shots. And I would agree.

I think that the problem is that this is now ancient history. Under him Ulster had 3 season of stability and progression, the environment had become much more professional, and all of the big shot players have retired. So far from having a problem with too much player power, we now have a problem with too little! We have no natural leaders, and the guys who have come through in the last few years have done so in a heavily top-down environment totally dominated by the head coach - and since Jared moved on, there aren't even any foils in the coaching staff (Jared would have stood his ground, whereas Bell and Soper are under his thumb).

But Dan only knows one way, so we're stuck fighting yesterday's battles. And that has resulted in the wheels coming off in a big way this season. And while every pre-season offers the chance for a reset, and Kitshoff and Ewers are great signings, I can't get away from the feeling that Dan was the man for the job in 2018, but isn't the man for the job now. Interesting that we don't hear much about 'fight for every inch' any more - because the team so patently doesn't, that is long gone. So if we don't have any dog, then what do we have? A ton of talented backs who may as well not be on the park, because tactically the coaching group is so off the pace

I know Bristol have had a ropy old season, but I would love to see what Pat Lam, or even better Jamie Joseph / Tony Brown, could unleash... Unfortunately that's dreamland because unless McFarland leaves of his own accord, we can't afford to get rid of him (thanks to Petrie, we can't even afford to complete a squad for next season...) So it's fingers crossed and hope for the best, and when has that ever failed to work out for Ulster??

Literally agree with all of that, it is exactly how I see it too. Doesn't look good for Ulster the next few years until at least McFarland, never mind those that extended his contract, are gone.

[Cap'n Grumpy]

Was talking briefly to one of the coaching team yesterday - no names, but also called Dan and hails from NZ.
I put it to him what a former player had told me, that Ulster were more pre-occupied on a home semifinal and revenge over Stormers in the week leading up to the match. He disagreed because the coaches had banned talk of a semifinal (at least during training time and within Ravenspan - what they did outside of that they couldn't control).
No, the reason we got beat by Connacht was the players' fault. They didn't turn up, didn't play the way they were told, and were bullied by a team that smelled blood after the first 10-15 minutes of the game. It was the players who got turned over, dropped the ball and otherwise made mistakes, and only came to life in the last 15 minutes by which time we were lucky even to be still in the game. He did point out that Ulster scored the only try of the game, so I presume that was to the credit of the attack coach. (anyone know who that is?)
There's only so much the coaches can do when the players aren't up to the job. That was my take-home message anyway.
He agreed with me that the ref made several strange decisions, but was in no way responsible for our loss. That was the players' fault (in case you missed that further up in my post).

Agree or disagree - discuss.

[Dave]

Coaches not taking any blame at all?

[Cap'n Grumpy]

Apparently not. Not that he mentioned anyway.

[Dave]

Apparently not. Not that he mentioned anyway.

Did he mention a bad crowd at all?

[justinr73]

Something definitely not right... I heard that players who have been at the club for years, including through lots of chaos, were saying that the atmosphere and morale from the Sale away game onwards has been absolutely rock-bottom and worse than anything previous..

Dan's argument is that when he came in, Ulster had been more or less chaotic and dysfunctional for years, and badly needed proper discipline and structure imposed - which is true. He would also say that he achieved that, which is also true IMO. He would also say that there was an issue with a few big-name players who pretty much ran the place and did what they wanted to a large extent - and that is also true!! And he would argue that this isn't desirable, that no player is bigger than the club, and that as the buck stops with the head coach, then he has to have the final say when it comes to calling the shots. And I would agree.

I think that the problem is that this is now ancient history. Under him Ulster had 3 season of stability and progression, the environment had become much more professional, and all of the big shot players have retired. So far from having a problem with too much player power, we now have a problem with too little! We have no natural leaders, and the guys who have come through in the last few years have done so in a heavily top-down environment totally dominated by the head coach - and since Jared moved on, there aren't even any foils in the coaching staff (Jared would have stood his ground, whereas Bell and Soper are under his thumb).

But Dan only knows one way, so we're stuck fighting yesterday's battles. And that has resulted in the wheels coming off in a big way this season. And while every pre-season offers the chance for a reset, and Kitshoff and Ewers are great signings, I can't get away from the feeling that Dan was the man for the job in 2018, but isn't the man for the job now. Interesting that we don't hear much about 'fight for every inch' any more - because the team so patently doesn't, that is long gone. So if we don't have any dog, then what do we have? A ton of talented backs who may as well not be on the park, because tactically the coaching group is so off the pace

I know Bristol have had a ropy old season, but I would love to see what Pat Lam, or even better Jamie Joseph / Tony Brown, could unleash... Unfortunately that's dreamland because unless McFarland leaves of his own accord, we can't afford to get rid of him (thanks to Petrie, we can't even afford to complete a squad for next season...) So it's fingers crossed and hope for the best, and when has that ever failed to work out for Ulster??

That’s a well constructed argument, although I maintain that our wheels are still, more or less, in place and that Kitshoff (a leader) and Ewers (a Trojan - can I still say that?) are gonna make a big difference.

As and when there is a change at the top, a change of approach is usually the result and someone like Lam (or Friend who was linked with us before Dan to the consternation of most/all) would be that kind of bloke.

Dan could then kick some under-achieving ass at Bristol because Lam’s touchy-feely stuff isn’t working very well there.

[rumncoke]

Dan was preceded by an airhead in charge who failed to protect his assets and left Ulster rudderless -- Humphries had to rescue the ship and dear knows what promises he had to make to Billy Burns in the process .

The mess was created by the airhead the morael was a product of the mishandling of the situation and the assumption that their innocence would be enough to save the ship when it was obvious from week one of the trial -- that the daughters of Madam Defarge were out for blood and not interested in evidence .

Ulster were at rock bottom and the only way was up.

[Cap'n Grumpy]

Apparently not. Not that he mentioned anyway.

Did he mention a bad crowd at all?

No but I told him that we were a bad crowd.

But we blamed that on disappointment at the performance.

[UlsterNo9]

Was talking briefly to one of the coaching team yesterday - no names, but also called Dan and hails from NZ.
I put it to him what a former player had told me, that Ulster were more pre-occupied on a home semifinal and revenge over Stormers in the week leading up to the match. He disagreed because the coaches had banned talk of a semifinal (at least during training time and within Ravenspan - what they did outside of that they couldn't control).
No, the reason we got beat by Connacht was the players' fault. They didn't turn up, didn't play the way they were told, and were bullied by a team that smelled blood after the first 10-15 minutes of the game. It was the players who got turned over, dropped the ball and otherwise made mistakes, and only came to life in the last 15 minutes by which time we were lucky even to be still in the game. He did point out that Ulster scored the only try of the game, so I presume that was to the credit of the attack coach. (anyone know who that is?)
There's only so much the coaches can do when the players aren't up to the job. That was my take-home message anyway.
He agreed with me that the ref made several strange decisions, but was in no way responsible for our loss. That was the players' fault (in case you missed that further up in my post).

Agree or disagree - discuss.

If a coach is prepared to hang his players out to dry to a mere fan on the street (no offence Grumps) rather than circle the wagons I would say there is a lot wrong with the environment within Ulster Rugby.

Why did the players not turn up Dan? Why didn't they play the way they were told Dan? Any accountability?
Soper blaming the players doesn't surprise, McFarland has publicly done it in interviews.

If this is what the two Dans are prepared to say in public, what are the players listening to on a daily basis and how is it affecting their performance?
It's certainly not going to gain a positive reaction from the playing squad.

Listening to a boss who constantly tells other people that you the employee is not performing is toxic. Equate it to any other working environment and it's an HR issue.

[Lurgan Lad]

Not a big fan of laying all the blame on the players, certainly the vast majority of it you could argue was their fault. What would you do if you are coach and your players aren't performing, you change something. What exactly did the coaches changed that resulted in an improvement?

[Jetstream]

"but I think it’s also OK to take a step back from social media at times, particularly when abuse has been pretty bad on quite a few occasions this season - I won’t accept it. Lots to talk about, I know - I’ll be doing just that in the next couple of weeks."

Our CEO posted the above on 7May. He's had 3 weeks to reflect.
Well Johnny, what do you think now?
Tell us all about taking the learnings on board and how everyone is still hurting but determined to make next season the best ever.

[Silverstu]

Not a big fan of laying all the blame on the players, certainly the vast majority of it you could argue was their fault. What would you do if you are coach and your players aren't performing, you change something. What exactly did the coaches changed that resulted in an improvement?

Maybe getting the players to take responsibility for losses? Theres been plenty of comments on here about players seeming to feel as though they have made it just by pulling on the jersey, perhaps they need to realise that its up to them to perform. Coaches can give them all the support, encouragement and information but at the end of the day its ups to the individual players to do the work and put it into action.
But yeah the coaches need to change things up for next season, last season we were almost there, this season, not so much. Dan is a smart guy and if he wants success he's definitely going to have change things up and if Soper is in charge of attack -that needs to gel over the preseason.