NEW CONTRACT FOR BEAR ?

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backawaygoonahead
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NEW CONTRACT FOR BEAR ?

Post by backawaygoonahead » Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:34 am

Not for the first time when the exit door has been gaping Bryan Young decides its time to show that he can scrummage. Last night the Ulster scrum changed from embarrassment to a weapon with the substitution of Cronin with Bear looking like a one man scrum.

I have no idea if our props for next year are resolved but if not I suggest that he is given a one month rolling contract so that the door remains gaping but the door to the team remains open if he can be bothered to perform like that. I have had the impression that it has been a problem of attitude but then again I know bugger all about propping other that bars.

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Re: NEW CONTRACT FOR BEAR ?

Post by TheElephantMan » Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:03 pm

Think your a bit harsh on Cronin....Apart from a few scrums,i thought he fronted up quite well.We all know he is great in the loose,but i think we need to give Cronin a few more first team matches under his belt before you crucify the bloke. I think he is a good prop for us give him time.
Last edited by TheElephantMan on Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: NEW CONTRACT FOR BEAR ?

Post by bootlaced » Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:10 pm

TheElephantMan wrote:Think your a bit harsh on Cronin....Apart from a few scrums,i thought he fronted up quite well.We all know he is great in the loose,but i think we need to give Cronin a few more first time matches under his belt before you crucify the bloke. I think he is a good prop for us give him time.

Tend to agree,with young Callum Black coming in and Afoa who yesterday showed that he can scrummage,Cronin will get his chance as well ,Young has had his chances and has been shown to be inconsistant,time to get the new lads motivated and look to the future instead of looking backwards.
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backawaygoonahead
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Re: NEW CONTRACT FOR BEAR ?

Post by backawaygoonahead » Sun May 01, 2011 8:57 am

TheElephantMan wrote:Think your a bit harsh on Cronin....Apart from a few scrums,i thought he fronted up quite well.We all know he is great in the loose,but i think we need to give Cronin a few more first team matches under his belt before you crucify the bloke. I think he is a good prop for us give him time.
M. L'Elephant: a staggering post a week after the fact, however much as I admire your generosity of spirit in not condemning Cronin for being unable to scrummage a brief revisit to the match will show you that he was done up like a kipper in the scrum.

The problem is that we have a maximum of 3 matches this season and Cronin won't play in any if our better props are available. This means that UR now have to decide on the existing evidence if he is good enough to be contracted. Given this I don't think he is good enough to get the nod but who knows.

Anyway here is the thing, amazingly when Jerry went off and Bear came on after 56 minutes the scrums changed immeasurably.

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Re: NEW CONTRACT FOR BEAR ?

Post by backawaygoonahead » Sun May 01, 2011 1:34 pm

Red Hand Hero wrote:
backawaygoonahead wrote:
M. L'Elephant: a staggering post a week after the fact, however much as I admire your generosity of spirit in not condemning Cronin for being unable to scrummage a brief revisit to the match will show you that he was done up like a kipper in the scrum.

The problem is that we have a maximum of 3 matches this season and Cronin won't play in any if our better props are available. This means that UR now have to decide on the existing evidence if he is good enough to be contracted. Given this I don't think he is good enough to get the nod but who knows.

Anyway here is the thing, amazingly when Jerry went off and Bear came on after 56 minutes the scrums changed immeasurably.
What I find amazing is that your trying to compare the performance of a prop who isn't even training full-time with the Ulster squad with someone who has been playing professional rugby for nearly a decade. You are also comparing the performance of Young coming on against a tiring LHP in Wilkinson, who was subbed not long after Young came on, and also of Young's performance against Ronan Loughney who is a terrible LHP. By your own standards you could equally compare Cronin's cameo against Aironi in the HEC where he came on and hammered an obviously tiring Perugini, (who started in Italy's much vaunted pack in the 6N) as proof he should be playing international rugby...
Wrong RHH, I am simply stating that his scrummaging throughout the Connacht game was excessively weak.

I started this thread as a direct opponent to a thread entitled "Give Cronin a Contact" slightly tongue in cheek and clearly stated that Bear only ever seems to put in enough effort is when his contract is expiring and I think that neither are good enough.

I also stated that Bear should only ever have a one month contract on a "treat him mean & keep him keen" regime.

Further the comparison you make is risible. You appear to have simply read my response to L'Elephant and gone off on one, context is everything.

Finally, I would never
What I find amazing is that your trying to compare the performancIt is only ever of value to e of a prop who isn't even training full-time with the Ulster squad with someone who has been playing professional rugby for nearly a decade.
it is only ever sensible to compare players as to how they are playing in the current season, otherwise we would still be extolling the virtues of Hayes & Horan. Nonsense.

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Re: NEW CONTRACT FOR BEAR ?

Post by backawaygoonahead » Sun May 01, 2011 1:39 pm

Should have mentioned that I expected a zero response to this thread but then a week later M.L'Elephant stumbles upon it.

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Re: NEW CONTRACT FOR BEAR ?

Post by Cap'n Grumpy » Sun May 01, 2011 1:54 pm

backawaygoonahead wrote:Should have mentioned that I expected a zero response to this thread but then a week later M.L'Elephant stumbles upon it.
Maybe the elephant stumbled over it a week ago, but then FORGOT! :shock:
Sadly the days of people using proper English are went

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Re: NEW CONTRACT FOR BEAR ?

Post by Ardglass2 » Sun May 01, 2011 3:11 pm

Thing is do we want a third TH or a fourth LH. I think the former is more important

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Re: NEW CONTRACT FOR BEAR ?

Post by backawaygoonahead » Sun May 01, 2011 6:19 pm

Red Hand Hero wrote:Cronin has showed in his few outings this season that there is a bit of potential there, and above all else he has the technique to cope at this level.

From Ulster's POV it would make a lot more sense to bring in Cronin on half of Young's salary and let Young go than keep Young on the basis of a decent runout at THP against Connacht of all teams.
RHH, you are missing the point, I don't actually favour retaining Bear at all and as far as I am aware neither do UR. He is offski, a former Bear, ursus mortuus.

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Re: NEW CONTRACT FOR BEAR ?

Post by bootlaced » Sun May 01, 2011 6:31 pm

Ardglass2 wrote:Thing is do we want a third TH or a fourth LH. I think the former is more important
Go on and talk me thru the props,I await with bated breath.What makes me laugh the most though,is as far as I can fathom there is not one poster on this thread that as any idea about front row play, for none of them have stated that they have played in that position,but suddenly they have become experts.One of the posters has actually stated that he does'nt have a clue,and was looking for someone to explain the play of certain props,Ha Ha Ha, :cowboy:
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Re: NEW CONTRACT FOR BEAR ?

Post by Ardglass2 » Sun May 01, 2011 8:31 pm

bootlaced wrote:
Ardglass2 wrote:Thing is do we want a third TH or a fourth LH. I think the former is more important
Go on and talk me thru the props,I await with bated breath.What makes me laugh the most though,is as far as I can fathom there is not one poster on this thread that as any idea about front row play, for none of them have stated that they have played in that position,but suddenly they have become experts.One of the posters has actually stated that he does'nt have a clue,and was looking for someone to explain the play of certain props,Ha Ha Ha, :cowboy:
We have Black, McAllister and Court at LH
We have Fitzpatrick and Afoa at TH

Last time I went to school that is 3 LH and 2 TH which means Cronin would be our 4th LH and Young our 3rd LH.
The maths is fairly simple.

The point is a very very simple one. If Fitzpatrick is injured during the World Cup who plays TH ?
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Re: NEW CONTRACT FOR BEAR ?

Post by CIMANFOREVER » Sun May 01, 2011 8:53 pm

bootlaced wrote:
Ardglass2 wrote:Thing is do we want a third TH or a fourth LH. I think the former is more important
Go on and talk me thru the props,I await with bated breath.What makes me laugh the most though,is as far as I can fathom there is not one poster on this thread that as any idea about front row play, for none of them have stated that they have played in that position,but suddenly they have become experts.One of the posters has actually stated that he does'nt have a clue,and was looking for someone to explain the play of certain props,Ha Ha Ha, :cowboy:
Well, I have played both LH and TH, and I agree that we need strength in depth at TH. Ulster at the moment are using TC as backup TH atm, no doubt on instruction from Declan Kidney. Rarely have I seen any prop do successfully and consistently at international or even Heineken level. Clohessy, Kempson and a couple of the French tyros, and thats about it.
TC struggles against international loosies when on the TH. At Heinie level, the same- remember NHampton?
Looking at the current squad, we're under gunned at TH for where we aspire to be. Strong TH cover would include Botha AND Afoa imo.
Look at every other top class Heinie or premiership team. Basically 2 Heinie level or international front rows in each squad.
Fitzpatrick and Cronin are below that level- Magners standard and injury cover only tbh.
On the Loose, TC and Paddy Mac, who WILL be international standard in a few years, take care of that position. With 3 good hookers already in place, we tick that box. Once we sort top class cover at TH for Afoa, can We say we're ready for the big push against Europe's biggest packs.

That's the standard we must be judged on if we're serious about Europe and trophies.
Back to the Thread, if Bear can't be ar*sed, then it's right he goes.. Although a good scrummage technician with a low centre of gravity to get under bigger props, it's wasted without attitude. Ulster need the salary to recruit strongly elsewhere and compete.
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Re: NEW CONTRACT FOR BEAR ?

Post by Snipe Watson » Sun May 01, 2011 8:55 pm

bootlaced wrote:as far as I can fathom there is not one poster on this thread that as any idea about front row play
I know about front row play..............fat blokes lean against each other and push. Is there more to it than that :?
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Re: NEW CONTRACT FOR BEAR ?

Post by bootlaced » Sun May 01, 2011 9:40 pm

Any other front rows willing to join the debate?
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Re: NEW CONTRACT FOR BEAR ?

Post by pwrmoore » Sun May 01, 2011 9:43 pm

Ardglass2 wrote: We have Black, McAllister and Court at LH
We have Fitzpatrick and Afoa at TH

Adam Macklin?
Paul.

C'mon Ulsterrrrrrrrr! :red:

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