some Maze momentum...

[Cap'n Grumpy]

“As a result of our research and discussions we have had with a range of people”

“For example we were told that Titanic Quarter withdrew from the running. Titanic quarter disputes this.”

“We were also given to understand that it would be too costly to decontaminate the north foreshore site. Various members of Belfast city Council have since told us that the council had already committed several million pounds to the decontamination of the site”

“In our pursuance of information, one of our members undertook to request information under the Freedom of Information Act.”


Looks suspiciously like research (systemic investigation to increase the sum of knowledge) to me!

(Or is research only research if it gives answers you agree with?)

[Gary]

The article last Sunday certainly appears to have been researched - unlike the plethora of previous Sunday Life articles written by Jim Gracey in support of the Maze.

[dead ball]

Paul
Quite correct. I do not expect it but when an article is written as the above you will excuse my sceptism as to it being a revelation. I have learned more about the Maze by discussing the issue with posters here, who bear in mind bring there own little bit of research, but none of them claim to know fully what is going on, I would submit neither does the author of the above piece.

[Kerry Fisher]

CT the last time Northern Ireland played England at Windsor Park there were only 14,500 spectators and there were empty places in the stand. This was for a World Cup qualifier no run of the mill friendly.
The Northern Ireland Supporters club have stated that football would only need a 20,000 seater stadium. Talk of UEFA Cup finals etc being played there are rubbish, for a 50,000 seater stadium to get the final 25,000 hotel bed spaces would be needed (UEFA requirments). The Ospreys are talking about leaving the Liberty Stadium as they cannot afford it. You hire the the whole stadium whether you get 50,000 or 5,000 fans through the gates. Ulster Rugby could not afford to run at this amount of a loss for a year.

[dead ball]

Looks suspiciously like research (systemic investigation to increase the sum of knowledge) to me!

(Or is research only research if it gives answers you agree with?)

CapN - I have already stated to Cables, which is no doubt why you reraise the same point, that I am not looking for agreement just proper research and proof. It is obivious they claim many things in the article. You will notice not a single name is metioned, no direct quotes but their are plenty of generalisations (sic) and speculative conjecture. I have read better qualified journalism in Scoop (and thats saying something).

[Gary]

I take it then DB that you would direct the same criticism at the pro-Maze articles written by Mr Gracey in the same newspaper.

[cables]

DeadBall
Look for "proper research and proof" from:

Government Ministers
DCAL
SIB
Tony Whitehead
Maze Consultation Panel (now defunct)
Maze/Long Kesh Monitoring Group (not met yet?)

I wish you good luck.

[dead ball]

I take it then DB that you would direct the same criticism at the pro-Maze articles written by Mr Gracey in the same newspaper.

I have never read them or post them here or elsewhere.

[Cap'n Grumpy]

"I have read better qualified journalism in Scoop (and thats saying something)."

Of course you have, but that's not saying something - that's taken as read!

[ulster_exile]

From today's Belly Telly

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport ... ory=675993

No! 86.7% reject move to Maze
42,500 seater gets thumbs down

Stuart McKinley
16 January 2006

Northern Ireland football fans have given a resounding 'no' to government plans to relocate their team at a new stadium on the site of the former Maze Prison.

For some time now supporters of the national team have been urging the Irish FA not to jump on-board the plans for a multi-sports stadium on the outskirts of Lisburn.

The Amalgamtion of Official Northern Ireland Supporters Clubs will tomorrow publish a paper which includes the results of a poll carried out among its members, with a massive 90% being against the government proposals to erect a 42,500 capacity stadium where one of the most infamous jails in the world once stood.

The group also has concerns about the transport infrastructure around the Maze site and the huge cost to the tax payer for upgrading the roads network.

They are also convinced that plans to bring the 2012 Olympic football tournament and a future UEFA Cup final to the stadium are doomed to failure before the go-ahead to build the ground is even confirmed.

The key questions in the survey surrounded the location of any new stadium and how many people it would hold.

Only 13.3% backed the plan to take the stadium to the Maze site, with a huge 86.5% instead prefering the Northern Ireland matches to stay in Belfast.

The favoured ground capacity for any new stadium is between 20,000 and 25,000 - that is backed by over half those polled, with just 11.4% wanting the proposed 42,500 seater stadium.

The results of the survey show that in total the government plans to build such a large sports stadium on the Maze site were backed by only 8.3% of those involved.

Research done by the group has discovered that the stadium design would rule out the prospect of a UEFA Cup final being held there.

Even if this was altered, the surrounding area doesn't provide enough hotel accomodation for the European governing body to consider an application.

The publication of the Amalgamation's paper comes just a matter of days before the Irish Football Association is due to take a vote on whether to back the move.

[bogboy]

For fuller details see WWW OURWEECOUNTRY"

FANS forum thread

the Almagations position on the Proposals

The full report to be printed in the near future on that thread

I just hope the IFA say no

and get the Government off the hook

Because they know it's a dead duck

If it wasn't the costings etc would be on the table

And everything would be Above Board

DEADBALL the reason why thereis no Proof is because the government is withholding information

And if that information is not detrimental then why is it being with held?

All the claims being made for the Stadium

are based on assumations

It will host Olympics ?

Could host a EUFA Cup Final?

Will have faciliies ?

Will be served by Public transport ?

Will have a bus lane on the M1?

Will be served by adequate trains?

Doesn't have a Terrorist Memorial ?

Since when was

A WW2 structure
1 H Block
Prison Hospital
the administration building
Emergency Control Room
Prison Chapel
A section of prison wall
a Watchtower
and a Cage from the Maze Compound

the necessary structures for what is refered toas

AN" International Centre for Conflict Resolution " exactly what is International in any of those ?

I only list the above and draw attentation to it to illustrate the lies implicit

I couldn't careless if it is a Memorial but if they can't tell the truth then they shouldn't be trusted

[Cockatrice]

Kerry- I was quoting figures from a Sunday paper the suggestion from the reporter being that government and the like assumed it would be best for the IFA to move and get 6x40,000 crowds bringing in several much needed millions.

I do not believe that those figures would be possible in any year never mind every year. They would in theory be the same for any stadium no matter where it was built but were suggested in such a way as to make people think that the Maze is the better option.

I have spoken to the Amalgamated Footballer Supporters for sometime and they have got their message across better than we did.

[Rooster]

“We were also given to understand that it would be too costly to decontaminate the north foreshore site. Various members of Belfast city Council have since told us that the council had already committed several million pounds to the decontamination of the site”

Grumpy I would have thought that the north foreshore would have to be cleaned up irrespective of whether a stadium was being built or not under EU pollution control measures, therefore this was always a red herring, (your colour suits) and should not ever had any bearing on the suitability of the site.

[ali c]

more here if you're interested

[bogboy]

Can you trust a Dept making press releases

14 /11/05 addressing the Northern Ireland Soccer Heroes states

"turning to the possiblity of a multi-sports stadium' the Minister said that work is at an advanced stage,"WE need an idiication from soccor rugbyand GAA that they will commit to the new stadium at the Maze/Long Kesh site. Without this commitment the stadium cannot go ahead and I want to emphasise that there is no plan B"

the same night

a further statement is made (not by the Dept)

" A serious contenderand economically viable Plan B to the Maze/ long Kesh National Stadium prososal has been announced to -day

on the the 28/11/05 the Dept press release says
He said ( the Minister)

"Against this backgroung I am giving serious consideration for a new multi-sport stadium on the Maze/ Long Kesh site.In many ways the Stadium can become a symbol of reconcilation pointing the way to a new shared future involving as it does sports from different traditions - soccer Rugby and Gaelic Games"

There are important practiical issues to be resolved in the establishment of a major facility of this nature but I remain confident that by working closely with the GAA Rugby and Football a satisfactory resolution can be found "

No statement of no plan B and the the identifation of important practical issues (not specified) which must be resolved

Deadball what facts what proof is there in these statements( from the Dept) to give anyone any confidence

In a word --none

the situation of the IFA is one of catch 22

do they spit in the eye of their fans ?( who will be the final deciders as to the sucess or failure of a stadium) and the finances of the IFA if the Stadium at the Maze were boycotted and Government fails to subsides their losses

Or do they spit in the eye of government ?

They are damned if they do and damned if they don't