Does Ulster's S&C need a health check???

[Deckard]

Get with it Deckard, I've already raised this in another thread! ;-)

Sorry Jackie, I'm just a bit late to th party an wasn't nicking your ideas! What thread was it??

[Deckard]

Get with it Deckard, I've already raised this in another thread! ;-)

Sorry Jackie, I'm just a bit late to th party an wasn't nicking your ideas! What thread was it??

Actually scrub that I've just found it, on the 'could it get worst' thread - uncanny, almost word for word! Great minds/fools etc depending in your taste!

[Cap'n Grumpy]

Look at each injury in its own right - Some in training; some playing for Ulster; some at home; some away; some playing for club; some with Ireland; at least one an aggravation or reccurrence of an injury that happened before the player even arrived in Ulster (I think); lots of different pitches - all different with the exception that due to the physical forces in play at the time of the injury, the body was put into a position it was never designed to be in - result injury.

With respect, cap'n, most o these supposed 'multifarious factors' are irrelevant - if there is a systemic issue, I was thinking more along the lines of whether guys are carrying too much poundage, or whether there were specific aspects of training which over time were weakening particular bits of the body. The location of the pitch the injury occurred on is a mere detail.

I'm not saying its the case - as I say I'm a total layman. I've no problem in principle with notching it all down to bad luck. But I'd certainly be interested in hearing from someone who actually does know what they're talking about, which was the main reason for posting in the first place!

I know exactly what you were suggesting, and I know you were looking for someone with professional knowledge to give their opinion, but by posting on a forum such as this, you invite opinion, and that is merely what I have offered.

What you refer to as mere detail is some of what others have suggested as being an aggravating factor - by pointing out that these aggravating factors were not constant, suggests they may not be too important to a "systemic issue".

Feel free to agree or disagree with my opinion - I'll try not to lose sleep over it.

[stickinout]

Could it be an environmental factor? Are we training on a new surface or doing something different that has been introduced with the new coach? Even though we have top notch S & C, training staff etc. it should be evaluated to make sure nothing is amiss.

Could it be? ..... yes.

Is it? ....... no

Look at each injury in its own right - Some in training; some playing for Ulster; some at home; some away; some playing for club; some with Ireland; at least one an aggravation or reccurrence of an injury that happened before the player even arrived in Ulster (I think); lots of different pitches - all different with the exception that due to the physical forces in play at the time of the injury, the body was put into a position it was never designed to be in - result injury.

It happens ..... build a bridge.

Hey Cap'n,
I see you're living up to your avatar! Who stole the cream off your bun? Place of injury wasn't what i was thinking about - more of the day to day set up that they follow in Belfast. Is it not a good idea to have an open mind to these things? Just because we have a good set up and professional support staff doesn't mean things can't go wrong. No doubt the right people are asking the right questions. now, this is for you:

[rocky]

As that well known philosopher, Forrest Gump, indicated, Sh1t Happens!
Our players have access to surgeons, physios, doctors, S&C people, nutritionists, etc, etc, as good as those treating Premiership poofball players.
There is a small, statistical increase in injuries with a new coach but that happens in the first month or two and it happens in training.
What we have is a run of serious, long term injuries that is down to pure bad luck.
The affected players have all been managed in the most expert way.
For once, Grumpy and Last Knight have got it right.

[BaggyTrousers]

Buy that man a pint. Actually I'll do it myself Rocky if you turn up to my usual drinking den on Friday.

[Deckard]

Were the majority of the ACL injuries not traumatic hyperextension injuries whilst on the pitch playing?

Pure dumb bad luck IMO.

I recall there being a more considered questioning of a "cluster" of hamstring injuries post Spala sessions. It is difficult to see how traumatic (whether direct or indirect) ligament injuries in the knee are being "caused" by something in training.

They were all incurred on the pitch in matches, or training matches as far as I know - so that would suggest just dumb luck?

I suppose the risk that occurs to me isn't so much that our fitness guys are doing utterly wrong-headed things - but just that fitness science seems to me to be an ever-shifting field, and for pro outfits like Ulster, it pays to be at the cutting edge, because if your guys are fitter/stronger etc, it's a clear competitive advantage. So the risk would be if we're doing something new or 'cutting edge' which is having this as a side-effect.

But as others have pointed out, our S&C guys and medical team are very well-reputed, so you'd like to think this ain't the case. Hopefully we've broken the hoodoo, and won't see any more for a while.

Related question, for anyone who knows - in the case of knee ligemant damage, when you have finished your rehab and back playing, is there a residual 'weakness', or not necessarily?

[mikerob]

Related question, for anyone who knows - in the case of knee ligemant damage, when you have finished your rehab and back playing, is there a residual 'weakness', or not necessarily?

I'm not a medic but from the perspective of someone who has fecked their ACL, I think it depends on what damage was done initially. In my case, the ACL was detached and needed to be re-attached and the damage was such that I don't quite have the same extension in both legs and the medial ligament was also stretched so there can occasionally be a bit of a (non-alcoholic induced) wobble or instability in one knee. If I was a pro athlete then it may be possible to get further corrective surgery to address these, but I'm not, and consider them just niggles that don't really affect quality of life.

[BR]

I would suggest there is at least one member of this forum eminently experienced and qualified to ask such questions, and would suggest that if he thought there were questions to be answered, he would have already asked them. I would go so far as to state that the UR medical staff would also listen to him .....

That's very kind of you Captain, but I have to admit that everything I know about liggyments and the like is down to Wikipedia.

[Rooster]

As that well known philosopher, Forrest Gump, indicated, Sh1t Happens!
Our players have access to surgeons, physios, doctors, S&C people, nutritionists, etc, etc, as good as those treating Premiership poofball players.
There is a small, statistical increase in injuries with a new coach but that happens in the first month or two and it happens in training.
What we have is a run of serious, long term injuries that is down to pure bad luck.
The affected players have all been managed in the most expert way.
For once, Grumpy and Last Knight have got it right.

If rocky says that then debate is now closed.

[Hans Indaruck]

The reason for the injuries is simple we have a squad of players who are giving 100% every game putting their heart, soul and body into ensuring them can legitimately claim their place in the team - so in sum its Maaaark's fault! That plus a run of bad luck!

[Cap'n Grumpy]

Hey Cap'n,
I see you're living up to your avatar! Who stole the cream off your bun?

How am I living up to my avatar?

What has Cardiac Risk in the Young got to do with anything I wrote? I can hardly live up to it since I'm far from young!

Place of injury wasn't what i was thinking about - more of the day to day set up that they follow in Belfast.

So you were suggesting that a multitude of injuries that happen due to brute force and higgorance being brought to bear on the human skelington making it move in ways it was never meant to was 100% down to their day to day training activities? (to discount other factors so readily would suggest so. I wouldn't discount something from training having a bearing, but it needs to be taken into acount with ALL other factors).

Is it not a good idea to have an open mind to these things? Just because we have a good set up and professional support staff doesn't mean things can't go wrong.

Always good to have an open mind, but not necessary to go off on one. I always find it amazing how many people come on to forums and state "I'm not an expert, but ..... " and then go on to suggest they've thought of something the experts haven't. Worse, it is often then assumed by some that the experts haven't even considered these things, when in all probability, those whose job it is to know, have considered it (and continue to keep it in mind), but have discounted it ..... while still keeping it in mind because it could still be a problem in the future. Still, the non-experts always know best!

No doubt the right people are asking the right questions.

Ahhhh - now you're getting there

now, this is for you:

I'm SO excited! Thanks!

[Cap'n Grumpy]

I would suggest there is at least one member of this forum eminently experienced and qualified ......

For once, Grumpy and Last Knight have got it right.

There speaks a man eminently experienced and qualified to pay me a compliment ....... why he had to spoil it though, by including LKotP, I'll never know

[stickinout]

Hey Cap'n,
I see you're living up to your avatar! Who stole the cream off your bun?

How am I living up to my avatar?

What has Cardiac Risk in the Young got to do with anything I wrote? I can hardly live up to it since I'm far from young!

Place of injury wasn't what i was thinking about - more of the day to day set up that they follow in Belfast.

So you were suggesting that a multitude of injuries that happen due to brute force and higgorance being brought to bear on the human skelington making it move in ways it was never meant to was 100% down to their day to day training activities? (to discount other factors so readily would suggest so. I wouldn't discount something from training having a bearing, but it needs to be taken into acount with ALL other factors).

Is it not a good idea to have an open mind to these things? Just because we have a good set up and professional support staff doesn't mean things can't go wrong.

Always good to have an open mind, but not necessary to go off on one. I always find it amazing how many people come on to forums and state "I'm not an expert, but ..... " and then go on to suggest they've thought of something the experts haven't. Worse, it is often then assumed by some that the experts haven't even considered these things, when in all probability, those whose job it is to know, have considered it (and continue to keep it in mind), but have discounted it ..... while still keeping it in mind because it could still be a problem in the future. Still, the non-experts always know best!

No doubt the right people are asking the right questions.

Ahhhh - now you're getting there

now, this is for you:

I'm SO excited! Thanks!

Sorry Cap'n, should've said your name not avatar: as in Grumpy.

I'm not discounting anything.

Who's going off on one????

Who's suggesting they've thought of something the experts haven't thought of, or even attempting to think of something the experts haven't thought of????

The was sent to brighten up your day but obviously you don't like flowers.

[Cap'n Grumpy]

I love flowers, but I'm just a grumpy get, and it takes more than one blossom to change that

Wasn't even a real flower