DOES ANYONE CARE IF DARREN CAVE LEAVES ULSTER?

[BaggyTrousers]

We have seen some encouraging renewals of contracts with Ruan and Chad signed up for 3 years after the current season.

One player still with us for one more year after this is Darren Cave. I'm of course a self confessed fan however I'm wondering if the powers that be at Ravenhill are quite such fans.

With a mixture of a tiny amount of knowledge and some conclusions drawn from what has happened this season, these are the facts as I see them:

Cave is in excellent form his display at Montpelier confirms all you need to know on that front

Having played superbly well he yet again finds himself on the bench whilst Nero fiddles.

But who is this Nero guy? Is it Mark Anscombe and if so what is he doing. Does he feel that Jared Payne is so fragile that he must try every other player at 15 whilst shoe-horning Payne into 13 where he is considerably less effective.

First Gilroy was the potential 15, fair enough not only did he make a decent fist of it but it would offer the tantalising prospect of Angry Tommy & Hilly in the same lineup. Now we have young master Olding being thrown the 15 jumper. No bad thing you might ponder

Here is something else you might ponder, Nero could be Joe Schmidt insisting that Ulster cannot rest Luke to give Stu a go at 12, Maak might then have to choose who is the fall guy, Darren or Jared?

Now clearly these men are rugby geniuses and I wouldn't presume to tell them their jobs but equally if a man on an ok contract gets the feeling that he is always the one to make way and knows he could earn substantially more elsewhere - say London Irish - them it would come as no surprise to me if his agent didn't appear on Dr Humphreys office asking if his client could be released on terms as favourable to him as indeed Doc Dave's own brother got when joining.......who was it now? ......, oh yes London Irish.

Course that's probably all a pile of keek. Mind you it wouldn't surprise this old lag.

Anyone care? I know Big stupid Al would be thrilled.

[ruckover]

To counter your "Everyone is being thrown into the 15 shirt in order to try and accommodate Jared at 13" argument: I think Olding and Gilly are the only two options, but because Gilly is injured, Olding is playing there this week. I would presume Gilly is the preferred option at 15.

Jared is being played at 13 for two reasons:
1. He can play there and he prefers 13
2. The IRFU see him as BOD's direct replacement so they want us to play him there

I'll admit, I liked what I saw of Jared at 13 initially, but with him counter-attacking from 15 and Darren at 13 I think we look like a more potent threat.

I want him to stay.

[Rooster]

Must say it is a bit strange as if they wanted Olding at 15 as cover for Payne then surely Payne would be the one to go to the bench rather than play 13 risk being injured and if Olding was out of his depth then have to play a full match, Cave clocked a lot of minutes last season and it seems like we are flogging Payne this season surely switch between the 2 is the answer ?

Suppose if it all makes sense to the players involved then it's ok but if everyone is in the dark as to what is going on I think it might make a player consider a retirement package elsewhere.

[CIMANFOREVER]

I do. DC is Ulster through and through, & has never let us down. We play better when he's at 13, (how many other 13's in Ireland could give that pass on Saturday?) his defence is outstanding, yet every back in Ireland has been given a reasonable go at 13 in BOD's absence apart from the BEST one. i.e. Keet (disaster) McFadden.. ditto. etc. etc. Cave's had 2 tests in North America 4 years ago, 5 mins versus the AB's in a team already crucified, and a meaningless fixture against Fiji. Disgraceful treatment. Now it seems D4 is exerting malign influence on starting JP at 13 (a mistake...) probably because Kearney's still viewed affectionately by JS, rather than the spent force the rest of us see.
Whilst Henshaw might be the future, no one's going to tell me who's the form 13 in Ireland atm. and it's not Downey or BOD either.
Is this going to be another DK era of favourites? I'd be surprised at JS, but all the indications....
So if DC decides to go, who can blame him? I know who I'd blame... Wonder did he take a p*ss in someone's Latte down at the Aviva..?

[pwrmoore]

2. The IRFU see him as BOD's direct replacement so they want us to play him there

I see this bandied around a lot. Where does it come from? Is there any source behind this? Or is it just the case that anything becomes received wisdom if it is repeated often enough?

[Joe Schmo]

Funny I was about to post what Darren? On the Cardiff thread. I'm a big fan of cave too and feel if ulster are to continue their stellar rise to the top they need players (like Best, trimble, ferris etc) as a backbone to the team.
There are do many other reasons why Caveman should stay at ulster but It's just repeating everything everyone else has said.
Hopefully there's a reason for it all and makes sense to Darren, because I'd hate to lose him.

[Neil F]

I see this bandied around a lot. Where does it come from? Is there any source behind this? Or is it just the case that anything becomes received wisdom if it is repeated often enough?

My impression here is that one of those who are (actually) "in the know" suggested that Payne's contract becomes a central contract, once he's available to Ireland. I think the view of Payne being O'Driscoll's successor has come from that. If he was being considered as a 15, with Kearney already the incumbent, it may be more questionable if he'd have received central funding, or so the theory goes.

[BaggyTrousers]

I do. DC is Ulster through and through, & has never let us down. We play better when he's at 13, (how many other 13's in Ireland could give that pass on Saturday?) his defence is outstanding, yet every back in Ireland has been given a reasonable go at 13 in BOD's absence apart from the BEST one. i.e. Keet (disaster) McFadden.. ditto. etc. etc. Cave's had 2 tests in North America 4 years ago, 5 mins versus the AB's in a team already crucified, and a meaningless fixture against Fiji. Disgraceful treatment. Now it seems D4 is exerting malign influence on starting JP at 13 (a mistake...) probably because Kearney's still viewed affectionately by JS, rather than the spent force the rest of us see.
Whilst Henshaw might be the future, no one's going to tell me who's the form 13 in Ireland atm. and it's not Downey or BOD either.
Is this going to be another DK era of favourites? I'd be surprised at JS, but all the indications....
So if DC decides to go, who can blame him? I know who I'd blame... Wonder did he take a p*ss in someone's Latte down at the Aviva..?

CIMAN, I completely concur, every word Now isn't this much nicer than our bickering a year or so ago

I tell you what, it looks to me, admittedly on brief evidence that Joe Schmidt is a slightly younger version of Deccie. There were those who said he had vision and would not be tied to his Leinster men. Bullshit, despite being the best 2nd row in the country, semi-native or foreign, if Joe picks Dan Tuohy rather than tiny wee small ineffective McCarthy or big useless beanpole with no grunt Toner, I'll me feckin'amazed. I'd rather have the late DOC brought back to life than either of those eejits.


All I can say is that early signs are not encouraging & I understand he isn't great at communication with the outer circle of his large squad either, its like the bloody dark ages.

So "Deccie Version 2.0" appears to be ensconced in D4 operating under the same 5 eminenences grise and little has changed. Wake me up when the AIs are over.

Meantime I hope Nero doesn't drive the best 13 in Ulster & maybe Ireland out of Ulster.

[BaggyTrousers]

To counter your "Everyone is being thrown into the 15 shirt in order to try and accommodate Jared at 13" argument: I think Olding and Gilly are the only two options, but because Gilly is injured, Olding is playing there this week. I would presume Gilly is the preferred option at 15.

Jared is being played at 13 for two reasons:
1. He can play there and he prefers 13
2. The IRFU see him as BOD's direct replacement so they want us to play him there

I'll admit, I liked what I saw of Jared at 13 initially, but with him counter-attacking from 15 and Darren at 13 I think we look like a more potent threat.

I want him to stay.

Much as I'd love to enlighten you a little I'll leave you to reread and perhaps read between one or two lines.

[mikerob]

Ulster should have a decent back-up for Payne at 15 anyway.

Nelson was tried out last year but doesn't seem to have featured this year (is he injured..?) and I don't know how he is viewed by the management.

McIlwaine to me, is a "in case of emergency" only option.

Too early to say if Scholes will make it.

I can see why the management would like to see how Gilroy or Olding fares at FB rather than picking McIlwaine...

[ColinM]

I care.

Darren Cave is the one back line player we have, who's value is in what he brings out of the other players as much as what he does himself. With the ball, other players get the chance to run lines off him, without the ball the defence is orchestrated that bit better, whether he's the one making the tackle or not.

Now I know some senior players have been known to influence the coaches from time to time, and I for one reckon if I were Tommy Bowe, I'd be wanting to play outside Darren Cave and in front of Jared Payne every week.

[Snipe Watson]

I care

[Neil F]

I care.

Darren Cave is the one back line player we have, who's value is in what he brings out of the other players as much as what he does himself. With the ball, other players get the chance to run lines off him, without the ball the defence is orchestrated that bit better, whether he's the one making the tackle or not.

Now I know some senior players have been known to influence the coaches from time to time, and I for one reckon if I were Tommy Bowe, I'd be wanting to play outside Darren Cave and in front of Jared Payne every week.

This

[scrum5]

In my humble opinion Cave is one player we cannot do without....

[Gary]

I bleedin' well care!!!!!!!!

Darren Cave would be the second player I'd pick on my team (after RP) - he's the brains of the team. Best back in Ireland at reading the game and the best defensive centre in Ireland. We play much better when he's there - we are so much better balanced.