A review of Props at Ulster

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CIMANFOREVER
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Re: A review of Props at Ulster

Post by CIMANFOREVER »

BuckRogers wrote: Of our young home grown guys there is a lot of the unknown about them. McCall, CIMAN, is not a TH as you state. He is a good LH with a lot of potential but struggles at TH...if you don't believe me I suggest you ask him or anyone that has two eyes in their head when they have watched his performance's at LH versus his performances as a TH. He's till only 21/22 and is not a big player which may count against him. Taylor, like McCall, is still very young though he had a mightily impressive JWC absolutely splitting a much larger Junior Black pack. Kane is even younger still and needs plenty of game time with the Bin-men before any judgement can be fairly made. Macklin is still injured? His and Paddy Mac's injuries couldn't really have come at a worse time in terms of their development into scrummaging props. Both were getting decent exposure only to be cut down cruelly injury. I'd be more worried about Macklin's ability to make it back than Paddy's though as Paddy had a better experience base to start with.
Buck, for the most part, not much disagreement regarding you overview of our current propping status.
What little I've ehard of Taylor is encouraging, ditto Kane, who I've seen and thought highly of, albeit at a much lower level. Both are very young however, and a few years off even Rabo I'd say.

Macklin returned on Saturday past, and by some accounts had a decent run out. I have hopes for him still if he stays injury free. At this age (and PMac's) often surviving and holding the scrum steady is progress enough, unit they open up at 26-27.

Only one I would challenge you on is McCall. Seen him scrummage in anger at least twice now for the "Ones", and most crucially in the Rorke's drift defence against Ladyboi's at RDS last year, against the probable Lions first choice Loose head in a meaningful match. He was fine. His body shape and size gave Healey all sorts of problems. He's not dissimilar to DF in that regard, and none of doubt DF's ability to prop at the highest level when fit- not sure his size will be an issue, even if only at Rabo level, whihc is the minimum these guys should be aspiring to.

Seen him this year as well at both Tight and Loose (I think! :scratch: ) and again didn't perceive any issues at tight at this level, albeit friendly. He's also decent around the park. Colleagues I know that have watched him in AIL have also been impressed. As he's a mere 21, he has plenty of time, and I stand by my assertion that he is better suited to tight than loose, but I'm sure we'll not fall out over it. :thumleft:
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Bayern
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Re: A review of Props at Ulster

Post by Bayern »

The following kids played prop for the 20s for Ulster this year:

Ross Kane(Malone)
Darryl Morton(Armagh)
James Leary (Newcastle)
Jonny Craig(Queens)
Michael Lagan(Methody)
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Re: A review of Props at Ulster

Post by Ulsterscall »

Not for a moment suggesting it will happen, but if the IRFU were serious about players moving between provinces to stop log jams occurring in certain positions and allowing the best players to be exposed to the biggest games then some of the following would be forced on the clubs;

Leinster to choose between Healy and McGrath and the one they don't choose to keep goes to Ulster

Ulster to choose between Olding and Marshall and the one they don't want to keep goes to Leinster

Henshaw to either Ulster or Munster with young up and comings going the other way.

One of Leinsters young 7's such as Dominic Ryan to Ulster or Munster. :stir:
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Re: A review of Props at Ulster

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Ulsterscall wrote:Not for a moment suggesting it will happen, but if the IRFU were serious about players moving between provinces to stop log jams occurring in certain positions and allowing the best players to be exposed to the biggest games then some of the following would be forced on the clubs;

Leinster to choose between Healy and McGrath and the one they don't choose to keep goes to Ulster

Ulster to choose between Olding and Marshall and the one they don't want to keep goes to Leinster

Henshaw to either Ulster or Munster with young up and comings going the other way.

One of Leinsters young 7's such as Dominic Ryan to Ulster or Munster. :stir:
Aye! That'll happen. :roll:

Rotation and depth are key to forward planning. Why would Leinster not keep both Healy and McGrath? Why would we not keep Olding and Marshall. As cover for injury, to allow rotation, to keep competition for places strong? Even if you weren't suggesting it would happen, you did put it forward as a good idea - which it isn't!
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BuckRogers
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Re: A review of Props at Ulster

Post by BuckRogers »

CIMANFOREVER wrote:
BuckRogers wrote: Of our young home grown guys there is a lot of the unknown about them. McCall, CIMAN, is not a TH as you state. He is a good LH with a lot of potential but struggles at TH...if you don't believe me I suggest you ask him or anyone that has two eyes in their head when they have watched his performance's at LH versus his performances as a TH. He's till only 21/22 and is not a big player which may count against him. Taylor, like McCall, is still very young though he had a mightily impressive JWC absolutely splitting a much larger Junior Black pack. Kane is even younger still and needs plenty of game time with the Bin-men before any judgement can be fairly made. Macklin is still injured? His and Paddy Mac's injuries couldn't really have come at a worse time in terms of their development into scrummaging props. Both were getting decent exposure only to be cut down cruelly injury. I'd be more worried about Macklin's ability to make it back than Paddy's though as Paddy had a better experience base to start with.
Buck, for the most part, not much disagreement regarding you overview of our current propping status.
What little I've ehard of Taylor is encouraging, ditto Kane, who I've seen and thought highly of, albeit at a much lower level. Both are very young however, and a few years off even Rabo I'd say.

Macklin returned on Saturday past, and by some accounts had a decent run out. I have hopes for him still if he stays injury free. At this age (and PMac's) often surviving and holding the scrum steady is progress enough, unit they open up at 26-27.

Only one I would challenge you on is McCall. Seen him scrummage in anger at least twice now for the "Ones", and most crucially in the Rorke's drift defence against Ladyboi's at RDS last year, against the probable Lions first choice Loose head in a meaningful match. He was fine. His body shape and size gave Healey all sorts of problems. He's not dissimilar to DF in that regard, and none of doubt DF's ability to prop at the highest level when fit- not sure his size will be an issue, even if only at Rabo level, whihc is the minimum these guys should be aspiring to.

Seen him this year as well at both Tight and Loose (I think! :scratch: ) and again didn't perceive any issues at tight at this level, albeit friendly. He's also decent around the park. Colleagues I know that have watched him in AIL have also been impressed. As he's a mere 21, he has plenty of time, and I stand by my assertion that he is better suited to tight than loose, but I'm sure we'll not fall out over it. :thumleft:
Quite correct, nothing to fall out over. Plenty of years in him should he want to move across but he is most definitely, at the minute, a more comfortable and proficient scrummager on the LH than TH. You are undoubtedly correct about his stint against Healy in the RDS, it was impressive the key difference between him and say TC moving back to TH is McCall is quite squat and much harder to attack from the perspective of the LH.


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CIMANFOREVER
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Re: A review of Props at Ulster

Post by CIMANFOREVER »

BuckRogers wrote: Quite correct, nothing to fall out over. Plenty of years in him should he want to move across but he is most definitely, at the minute, a more comfortable and proficient scrummager on the LH than TH. You are undoubtedly correct about his stint against Healy in the RDS, it was impressive the key difference between him and say TC moving back to TH is McCall is quite squat and much harder to attack from the perspective of the LH.


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Agreed. Think as he develops, he has a decision to make, given the two in front of him (plus any NIQ/Project) at Loose, or where there is a Real need at tight. He's young enough to make the change as long as he decides now. Like I said, he's good about the park/ mobile, which is what we lose with DF. The now hackneyed phrase "the new laws may suit him" may hold better in HIS case, and his low centre of gravity and ability to get his ar*e lower than his shoulders make his body shape an asset at T/H now IMO. For a 21 y.o., he seems to have it in spades. Really hope he and Macklin get their chances and come through.


But this is future proofing- what we need are HEC level options within 6 months, so doesn't really solve our problem short term.
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Re: A review of Props at Ulster

Post by Ulsterscall »

Scranner wrote:
Ulsterscall wrote:Not for a moment suggesting it will happen, but if the IRFU were serious about players moving between provinces to stop log jams occurring in certain positions and allowing the best players to be exposed to the biggest games then some of the following would be forced on the clubs;

Leinster to choose between Healy and McGrath and the one they don't choose to keep goes to Ulster

Ulster to choose between Olding and Marshall and the one they don't want to keep goes to Leinster

Henshaw to either Ulster or Munster with young up and comings going the other way.

One of Leinsters young 7's such as Dominic Ryan to Ulster or Munster. :stir:
Aye! That'll happen. :roll:

Rotation and depth are key to forward planning. Why would Leinster not keep both Healy and McGrath? Why would we not keep Olding and Marshall. As cover for injury, to allow rotation, to keep competition for places strong? Even if you weren't suggesting it would happen, you did put it forward as a good idea - which it isn't!
I certainly don't think it will happen, in fact I know it won't, and nor do I necessarily think it is a good idea for the clubs (although McGrath would solve our loose head problem and Olding/Marshall their 12 problem without having to use up an NIQ or even project player). I do, however, think it would be a good idea for the IRFU - surely McGrath would learn more starting against some of the best tight heads in the world on a regular basis and Olding/Marshall would develop quicker starting on a regular basis with one having D'Arcy as mentor/back-up at Leinster and the other with Paddy fulfilling the same role at ulster?

As far as I can see ulster have Olding, Marshall, Paddy and Farrell at 12 whilst Leinster have Healy, McGrath, O'Connell and Bent at loose head which seems like squad/rotation depth enough for me.
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Re: A review of Props at Ulster

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Ulsterscall wrote: As far as I can see ulster have Olding, Marshall, Paddy and Farrell at 12 whilst Leinster have Healy, McGrath, O'Connell and Bent at loose head which seems like squad/rotation depth enough for me.
Olding and Marshall are the future I grant you. Paddy hasn't played this season. Is he even in training? Farrell is untested. We have two proven 12s. Why would we even consider allowing one to go. We are ruled by the IRFU but even they could see that it wouldn't be good for Ulster Rugby and would only be of marginal benefit to Ireland.

If Marshall and Olding are vying for the 12 shirt week in week out, that can only be good for Ulster and Ireland. If one of them becomes pre-eminent, the other will probably leave to find regular first team rugby.

As far as props are concerned: the only one of the ones you mentioned that Leinster would let come North, we don't need/want. They'd probably be glad to get rid of him.
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Re: A review of Props at Ulster

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Paddy will be back playing in the next couple of weeks
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BR
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Re: A review of Props at Ulster

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Snipe Watson wrote:
BaggyTrousers wrote:
Bayern wrote:What happened to James Harrison? He played Tighthead for Methody the season before last and won the Schools player of the year. Seemed pretty talented, there has to be a problem when the player considered to be the best schools player of that year is not involved with Ulster a year or so later.
Any ideas where he is now?
Whilst I happily confess to being an ignoramus about schools rugby, is it not a fact that many young lads finish their final year at school and say tarrah to rugby for good? I understood that MCB had a huge number of guys who did that because certain guys took every last ounce of enjoyment out of schools rugby there?

Ah, maybe that is historic bullshit ............. or just.......... bullshit.
Or correct.

Being the best schools player means little when it comes to senior rugby.
Even more so at prop.
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Re: A review of Props at Ulster

Post by connachtexile »

The one person none of you guys have mentioned is Michael Bent. With McGrath and Moore coming through he's dropped further down the pecking order. He's IQ and (I think) out of contract at the end of this season. Apparently he's being converted back to LH so could be an option to move north. If you guys would want him or not is a different story.
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Jackie Brown
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Re: A review of Props at Ulster

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He's brad pitt
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Kofi Annan
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Re: A review of Props at Ulster

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connachtexile wrote:The one person none of you guys have mentioned is Michael Bent. With McGrath and Moore coming through he's dropped further down the pecking order. He's IQ and (I think) out of contract at the end of this season. Apparently he's being converted back to LH so could be an option to move north. If you guys would want him or not is a different story.

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Jackie Brown
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Re: A review of Props at Ulster

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LastKnightoftheproms wrote:
Jackie Brown wrote:He's brad pitt
But he's a Leinster "international"? >EW
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Re: A review of Props at Ulster

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connachtexile wrote:If you guys would want him or not is a different story.
With all due respect and a huge appreciation of what Connacht Rugby achieves; would you want him? Therein should lie your answer!
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