Casement Park … the inevitable question.

[jackthelad]

How many will Windsor hold?

That's a Knotty question....

[CIMANFOREVER]

On a personal level, I would probably struggle with the idea of going to Casement for anything. I have no problem with Croke Park, but Casement brings up some pretty unpleasant memories of the troubles for me.

With you on this one, BSC. One event in particular in it's very grounds will stay with me and disgust me forever.
Elephant in the room tbh, but here goes:

If the boot was on the other foot, would the GAA be happy using Ravers if Casement wasn't available hypothetically, given it's location? ( and I know they have major alternatives dotted all across Ulster, but go with me.) Forgetting Windsor straight off...
I doubt it. And their fans would also rightly feel nervous for many of the reasons I give below.

Ulster rugby is the most politically "neutral" of the 3 main sports here (and All Ireland dimension), even tho it still has, to some degree, the "middle class prod" image for those out of touch with the new reality. However, the sight of many Ulster fans making their way up the Andy town road, maybe from Ballygo, down Springfield etc.. with an "Ulster" flag ie NI flag, which we see comfortably mixed through with the old yellow Provincial Ulster flags also seen at GAA matches, may cause a reaction. I for one, take my "NI" flag to away matches, and will happily stand with those with the yellow one. Both are symbolic depending on context.

Or would "We" be bussed in, like Linfield fans up at Brandywell the other year?

I for one wouldn't be parking up there, not wouldn't feel comfortable getting a regular bus up with Ulster Rugby jersey/ Flag etc.. I'm from the North of the city, and know the geography well. Even tho the area around Ravers is rough enough, there's never been an issue in all the years I've been going. Nor am I aware of any issue with e.g. Mexicans/ Turnips fans coming up either. Andytown and Casement would be a big unknown, given the current climate.

Also, would we want to risk a major showpiece game on Sky etc.. if something did go wrong? Given current dissident activity etc. it would be a plum to disrupt and give those eejits (can't swear ffs..)publicity or worse. Or "fleg protestors and their ilk from LAD, infiltrating to wave U.Jacks etc. just like aforesaid game at Brandywell? I'm not so naive to think that we wouldn't get troublemakers from both "sides." It's a distinct possibility.

Also, Who would "Police" it? A major game with say 30,000 odd fans needs more than Eventsec. due to traffic disruption etc. So, PSNI traffic cops on the Andytown road like they do at Onslow and Mt Merrion?

George Hook floated this idea a few months ago, with the idea that it would be a great idea..disregarding recent history and short memories on both "sides". Utter B.S. and to call it naive would be an understatement- dis-ingenious would be another word for it.

I would genuinely be happier at Croke, altho' even that would be dodgy enough for me- there's a difference between Ireland at Croke, and Ulster, given the North side is nearly as hostile as West Belfast to many who may support Ulster.
I also think Casement would deter many regular fans as well. We draw our support from a wide range of backgrounds- why would one tranche of fans feel unable to go?.. those from security forces etc... Would be like the bad old days when Ulster sides playing in ROI took shadow sides as many "civil servants" couldn't travel.
So, Aviva if Ravers wasn't big enough. Tried and tested. Sad reality, but Ulster should say No imo....
I await getting lumps getting kicked out of me for giving my honest opinion....

[AyeYerMa]

I think I'm more or less in agreement with you tbh.

I'd go, but I'd be uncomfortable about it.

[Kofi Annan]

If the boot was on the other foot, would the GAA be happy using Ravers if Casement wasn't available hypothetically, given it's location? ( and I know they have major alternatives dotted all across Ulster, but go with me.) Forgetting Windsor straight off...
I doubt it. And their fans would also rightly feel nervous for many of the reasons I give below.

Ciymanforever , well were do I start, Antrim GAA will be playing a game at Ravers during 2014 , as Casement won't be available .

[Cockatrice]

CIMAN wrote:
Even tho the area around Ravers is rough enough

Now that is so middle class prod

I'd actually prefer any game played at Ravenhill for the reason it is called Fortress Ravenhill and teams did not like playing there on cold Friday nights it won us games. I think that home teams that sometimes take their games to bigger grounds that they themselves are unfamiliar with is a disadvantage.

[Wee Woman]

I'm from the North of the city.

Even tho the area around Ravers is rough enough, there's never been an issue in all the years I've been going.

I await getting lumps getting kicked out of me for giving my honest opinion....

Well you did set yourself up for it, so I'll bite.

As someone who spent almost 30 years living within a short walk of Ravenhill, I have to say you are taking utter shyte about the area around Ravenhill being 'rough enough'. In fact I'm quite offended that you think that actually.

As a North Belfast man who has presumably had to travel past or close to Mount Vernon or the New Lodge areas on a regular enough basis I would have thought you would have had a better handle on what constitutes a rough area.

But hey, maybe my 'geography' and awareness of areas in Belfast where I was not brought up in is on a par with yours.

[CIMANFOREVER]

If the boot was on the other foot, would the GAA be happy using Ravers if Casement wasn't available hypothetically, given it's location? ( and I know they have major alternatives dotted all across Ulster, but go with me.) Forgetting Windsor straight off...
I doubt it. And their fans would also rightly feel nervous for many of the reasons I give below.

Ciymanforever , well were do I start, Antrim GAA will be playing a game at Ravers during 2014 , as Casement won't be available .

Touche on that one, Kofi... Great stuff.. be interesting to see all the Antrim GAA tops making their way up the Cregagh or Castlereagh roads... maybe stop off at the King Dick, "EyeBrox/ Bunch of Grapes, " Eastenders or Hillfoot for a cheeky one before a quiet dander up a past the flats or take in George Bests house just off leafy, suburban Mt Merrion, given it's NI Fleg central (or Jamie Bryson's house at Xmas).. ... or will the GAA supporters get bussed in/ travel round the ring road and dander down- maybe park in Braniel or Clonduff?... good luck with that Ditto up in Andytown is my analogy.
All half joking aside, I hope the GAA match comes off trouble free and sets a benchmark or precedent, cos I have no problem with it whatsoever, but I won't be the problem, I suspect.

Ok, and what about the rest, if the GAA at Ravers is down my list of concerns? Respectfully..

[CIMANFOREVER]

CIMAN wrote:
Even tho the area around Ravers is rough enough

Now that is so middle class prod

I'd actually prefer any game played at Ravenhill for the reason it is called Fortress Ravenhill and teams did not like playing there on cold Friday nights it won us games. I think that home teams that sometimes take their games to bigger grounds that they themselves are unfamiliar with is a disadvantage.

So would I, and I would in no way describe myself as middle class, believe me..

[Wee Woman]

If the boot was on the other foot, would the GAA be happy using Ravers if Casement wasn't available hypothetically, given it's location? ( and I know they have major alternatives dotted all across Ulster, but go with me.) Forgetting Windsor straight off...
I doubt it. And their fans would also rightly feel nervous for many of the reasons I give below.

Ciymanforever , well were do I start, Antrim GAA will be playing a game at Ravers during 2014 , as Casement won't be available .

Touche on that one, Kofi... Great stuff.. be interesting to see all the Antrim GAA tops making their way up the Cregagh or Castlereagh roads... maybe stop off at the King Dick, "EyeBrox/ Bunch of Grapes, " Eastenders or Hillfoot for a cheeky one before a quiet dander up a past the flats or take in George Bests house just off leafy, suburban Mt Merrion, given it's NI Fleg central (or Jamie Bryson's house at Xmas).. ... or will the GAA supporters get bussed in/ travel round the ring road and dander down- maybe park in Braniel or Clonduff?... good luck with that Ditto up in Andytown is my analogy.
All half joking aside, I hope the GAA match comes off trouble free and sets a benchmark or precedent, cos I have no problem with it whatsoever, but I won't be the problem, I suspect.

Ok, and what about the rest, if the GAA at Ravers downs my list of concerns? Respectfully..

No rugby supporters frequent those watering holes en route to matches at Ravenhill (if they did they would know full well that the Bunch has been closed for years and The Eastender for over a year) so why would Antrim GAA fans even entertain it?

How many Ravenhill regulars do you know who park up the Braniel or at Clonduff?

And all half joking aside from me, you are still taking shyte.

Anyway, enough from me.

[Russ]

Interestingly enough, I don't think Ravenhill is in Antrim

[Jackie Brown]

Can only be good for our communities as a whole if we shard grounds occasionally.

Time to move on.

[Kofi Annan]

They could always go to see the Red Sox clubhouse, as long as no one loses a mobile phone it should be friendly enough

[CIMANFOREVER]

Well you did set yourself up for it, so I'll bite.

As someone who spent almost 30 years living within a short walk of Ravenhill, I have to say you are taking utter shyte about the area around Ravenhill being 'rough enough'. In fact I'm quite offended that you think that actually.

As a North Belfast man who has presumably had to travel past or close to Mount Vernon or the New Lodge areas on a regular enough basis I would have thought you would have had a better handle on what constitutes a rough area.

But hey, maybe my 'geography' and awareness of areas in Belfast where I was not brought up in is on a par with yours.

W.W., as walking distance to Ravers can constitute Ravenhill, Onslow, Upper Ormeau as well as Clonduff, Braniel, Cregagh etc., respectfully, Ballix. I'm sorry for your offence, but make no apology for it.

The implication was nothing to do with "working class" but more unpalatable elements prevelant in the areas I drew analogies about, and where the only difference is the colour of a flag.
I've worked in East Belfast, Castlereagh/ Cregagh for nigh on 20 years, and "know the geography" as you call it (as well as the people) nearly as well as T/Bay where my mother and grandmother were brought up, or Shore road, (Seaview to be exact) ie adjacent to Mt. Vernon, where I was eventually brought up when moved, to know exactly what constitutes rough- not in terms of working class, but from other more unsavoury aspects.

I do find it interesting that the main critique of the relatively minor aspect of my post regarding Ravers and Casement constitutes offence that I consider some parts around Ravers as "rough" within a predefined context rather than the real concerns I raised about staging a game at Casement. Certainly didn't see that one coming...

[remould]

I don't see myself as a bigot or someone who can't accept other views or traditions, in fact I have great friends who certainly don't share my political views . However I just can't get my head round what happened that day in west Belfast and the place that casement park played in that event. Added to that the unwillingness of the GAA to stop its clubs glorifying people who terrorised my community for 30 years, and allowing them to name their grounds after these terrorists won't allow me to ever set foot in Casement Park. I will also add that if my own club or any other Rugby club decided to rename their ground after a terrorist no matter what their cause I wouldn't visit that ground.

I haven't passed on my feelings to my kids as they will live a different life to me, and I really hope that they and others of their generation can come together and love all sports as they should be appreciated .

[bootlaced]

Me I couldn't give a feck re Casement park or Windsor whatever it is called.This thread should not be in thae Hill,maybe it should be moved elsewhere and allow us to talk about Ravenhill and rugby.