Any word on the Academy?

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Bayern
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Re: Any word on the Academy?

Post by Bayern » Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:23 pm

solidarity wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:48 pm
Hard to see anything to be hopeful about, with only the U 19s getting within a score of the Mexicans. Or are Leinster just so far ahead of everyone else?
Leinster are undefeated in all the interpros, so were Ulster entering this weekend.

But most games have been close.

That was the schools first game so we will see next week how they do versus Munster. Could just be a very strong group for Leinster.

Positive from a Ulster POV that there standouts have been forwards IMO.

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UlsterNo9
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Re: Any word on the Academy?

Post by UlsterNo9 » Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:36 pm

Anyone have a breakdown of the number of kids playing rugby at underage level in each of the provinces? Would estimate Leinster have 30/40% more than that of Ulster?

Then you get into private school funding with coaches and facilities.

If you pro rata age grade playing numbers against internationals produced for Ireland how do Ulster compare to the other provinces?

I think there was some info posted on this a while back but I cannot find it.
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Bayern
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Re: Any word on the Academy?

Post by Bayern » Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:38 pm

UlsterNo9 wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:36 pm
Anyone have a breakdown of the number of kids playing rugby at underage level in each of the provinces? Would estimate Leinster have 30/40% more than that of Ulster?

Then you get into private school funding with coaches and facilities.

If you pro rata age grade playing numbers against internationals produced for Ireland how do Ulster compare to the other provinces?

I think there was some info posted on this a while back but I cannot find it.
Ulster are using schools players to make up most of their club side Leinster are not.

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UlsterNo9
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Re: Any word on the Academy?

Post by UlsterNo9 » Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:39 pm

How many clubs in Ulster actually field an U18 team on a regular basis? Numbers must be pretty low.
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Bayern
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Re: Any word on the Academy?

Post by Bayern » Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:01 pm

Two big ball carrying 8's coming through(Longstaff/McNabey) and a big lock(Irvine)

along with a promising 9(Wright), 10(Gibson) and 15(Graham).
Last edited by Bayern on Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

Lurgan Lad
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Re: Any word on the Academy?

Post by Lurgan Lad » Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:25 pm

UlsterNo9 wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:39 pm
How many clubs in Ulster actually field an U18 team on a regular basis? Numbers must be pretty low.
Very hard to do this as most grammar schools don't usually allow their players to play for a club too. It is a real pity a solution hasn't been found to this.

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Re: Any word on the Academy?

Post by Gerald the Mole » Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:53 am

Lurgan Lad wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:25 pm
UlsterNo9 wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:39 pm
How many clubs in Ulster actually field an U18 team on a regular basis? Numbers must be pretty low.
Very hard to do this as most grammar schools don't usually allow their players to play for a club too. It is a real pity a solution hasn't been found to this.
So, you blaming the grammar schools ? What about the clubs taking some responsibility, what about the clubs who have a thriving mini section actually continuing that forward into U14s U16s and U 18s , Look at Cooke Go look at at CIYMS , go look at Harlequins , massive mini sections and zero age grade, is there a problem with coaches, all those yummy mummies and Solictor fathers who love all the kit , with COACH on the back , those that like to brag that they coach Rugby, but once little Leonard moves on they also retire from coaching . Clubs need to really up the game in regards to youth sections , playing numbers also are an issue, but I would bet my Ulster Season ticket that if you remove International tickets unless you have a competitive age group we would have a good chance.

By the way grammar kids can play for their clubs it’s a myth they are stopped by headmasters

Also a big fecking bug bear I have with Mini Sections, the lack of support from those parents to the club, they see the mini section as a private club, no interest in what 1st XV et al are doing, they do not support the club. Some are even a drain on finances

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UlsterNo9
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Re: Any word on the Academy?

Post by UlsterNo9 » Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:22 am

Gerald the Mole wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:53 am
Lurgan Lad wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:25 pm
UlsterNo9 wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:39 pm
How many clubs in Ulster actually field an U18 team on a regular basis? Numbers must be pretty low.
Very hard to do this as most grammar schools don't usually allow their players to play for a club too. It is a real pity a solution hasn't been found to this.
So, you blaming the grammar schools ? What about the clubs taking some responsibility, what about the clubs who have a thriving mini section actually continuing that forward into U14s U16s and U 18s , Look at Cooke Go look at at CIYMS , go look at Harlequins , massive mini sections and zero age grade, is there a problem with coaches, all those yummy mummies and Solictor fathers who love all the kit , with COACH on the back , those that like to brag that they coach Rugby, but once little Leonard moves on they also retire from coaching . Clubs need to really up the game in regards to youth sections , playing numbers also are an issue, but I would bet my Ulster Season ticket that if you remove International tickets unless you have a competitive age group we would have a good chance.

By the way grammar kids can play for their clubs it’s a myth they are stopped by headmasters

Also a big fecking bug bear I have with Mini Sections, the lack of support from those parents to the club, they see the mini section as a private club, no interest in what 1st XV et al are doing, they do not support the club. Some are even a drain on finances
I don't think Lurgan Lad is blaming anyone, just raising a point. I believe you cannot play more than 1 game in a 48 hour period at youth level therefore if you play for your school on a Saturday morning it's going to more or less rule you out of playing for a club. Those teams you name have great minis, the problem is most then move on to schools and play there.
The incentive around international tickets is a good point, or how about a scheme whereby Ulster award £25k to any club who develop a kid through their youth system, £50k if they gain an Ireland cap. It's relatively a few pennies to produce a professional player.
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Lurgan Lad
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Re: Any word on the Academy?

Post by Lurgan Lad » Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:01 am

UlsterNo9 wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:22 am
Gerald the Mole wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:53 am
Lurgan Lad wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:25 pm
UlsterNo9 wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:39 pm
How many clubs in Ulster actually field an U18 team on a regular basis? Numbers must be pretty low.
Very hard to do this as most grammar schools don't usually allow their players to play for a club too. It is a real pity a solution hasn't been found to this.
So, you blaming the grammar schools ? What about the clubs taking some responsibility, what about the clubs who have a thriving mini section actually continuing that forward into U14s U16s and U 18s , Look at Cooke Go look at at CIYMS , go look at Harlequins , massive mini sections and zero age grade, is there a problem with coaches, all those yummy mummies and Solictor fathers who love all the kit , with COACH on the back , those that like to brag that they coach Rugby, but once little Leonard moves on they also retire from coaching . Clubs need to really up the game in regards to youth sections , playing numbers also are an issue, but I would bet my Ulster Season ticket that if you remove International tickets unless you have a competitive age group we would have a good chance.

By the way grammar kids can play for their clubs it’s a myth they are stopped by headmasters

Also a big fecking bug bear I have with Mini Sections, the lack of support from those parents to the club, they see the mini section as a private club, no interest in what 1st XV et al are doing, they do not support the club. Some are even a drain on finances
I don't think Lurgan Lad is blaming anyone, just raising a point. I believe you cannot play more than 1 game in a 48 hour period at youth level therefore if you play for your school on a Saturday morning it's going to more or less rule you out of playing for a club. Those teams you name have great minis, the problem is most then move on to schools and play there.
The incentive around international tickets is a good point, or how about a scheme whereby Ulster award £25k to any club who develop a kid through their youth system, £50k if they gain an Ireland cap. It's relatively a few pennies to produce a professional player.
Thanks No9, yes really just highlighting that the current system doesn't work and not blaming schools at all. If you are trying to grow your youth section and attract people from different schools and backgrounds when you get to fourth year suddenly it can become a big problem. As far as I can remember at Lurgan we had healthy numbers at each age group and come 4th year (we are under the Dickson plan for schools) a lot of the guys had to move to Banbridge to be able to form a side to continue playing. I think it also happened to players at Portadown, that they had to move to Banbridge. That is my memory of it and I mightn't have got all the facts completely correct, but there was also some issue that we couldn't have a combined team representing a few clubs, that the Belfast sides wouldn't allow that.

The issues at other Belfast clubs I couldn't comment on, but do agree a lot of parents have zero interest in the club. For a decent percentage of them it is giving their child exercise and for some it is basically a baby sitting service although that would be harsh on most. At Lurgan for a parent to actually have any influence in the club they had to become a member, paying their kids annual fee didn't make them an actual member of the club which I found ridiculous. So you could have someone who is retired and they could pay £20 to become a member, and a parent with say 3 kids at the club would have to pay over £200 to have the same opportunities to represent the club. I often wondered if parents automatically became members when they paid their child subs would it make a lot of difference in the club, not sure.

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Re: Any word on the Academy?

Post by nonplussed » Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:05 am

ah this is my big bug bear. I have 1 son at a regional Grammar and 1 at a Belfast school and both have good ties to their club. However the schools both have stated they will take priority and that the boys arent allowed to play matches for the club, but can train once a week.

My boy at the regional gets so much more from the club that from school and is fed up... its not a good situation at all and parental preference is ignored.

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Re: Any word on the Academy?

Post by Bayern » Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:13 am

Standout underage prospects:

Prop
Joseph Mawhinney(Ballymena)(u20)
David Braden(Omagh)(u20)
Jack Boal(Campbell)(u19)

Hooker
James McCormick(Dalradia)(u20)

Lock
Charlie Irvine(Wallace)(u19)
Joe Hopes(Campbell)(u18)

Backrow
Rueben Crothers(Wallace)(u20)
Jack Milton(Ballycare)(u20)
Paddy Browne(Ballymena)(u19)
James McNabney(Cambridge House)(u19)
Flynn Longstaff(Campbell)(u18)
James Anderson(Armagh)(u18)

Scrumhalf
James Wright(Ballymena)(u19)

Outhalf
Ross McKay(Ballymena)(u19)
Ben Gibson(Bangor)(u18)

Centre
Jude Postlethwaite(RBAI)(u20)
Ben Carson(Wallace)(u20)

Back Three
Rory Telfer(Coleraine)(u19)
Ethan Graham(Monaghan)(u18)

Anyone I'm missing?

nonplussed
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Re: Any word on the Academy?

Post by nonplussed » Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:42 am

Zach Scarlett (BallyclareHS) u18

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UlsterNo9
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Re: Any word on the Academy?

Post by UlsterNo9 » Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:51 am

nonplussed wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:05 am
ah this is my big bug bear. I have 1 son at a regional Grammar and 1 at a Belfast school and both have good ties to their club. However the schools both have stated they will take priority and that the boys arent allowed to play matches for the club, but can train once a week.

My boy at the regional gets so much more from the club that from school and is fed up... its not a good situation at all and parental preference is ignored.
The schools historically have always held the position of power in this situation, not sure if that needs changed or at lead opportunity for parity.

There does need to be better link up between schools and clubs at underage level to allow kids who do not go to a rugby playing school the opportunity to play the game. My experience is that clubs struggle to field teams at 11 - 18 year age grade.
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Re: Any word on the Academy?

Post by nonplussed » Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:02 pm

I've coached Mini rugby for over 10 years, and the local grammar will not let the boys register for the local club, meaning that the club invest 7 years in a kid, and then nothing... the same club are struggling for players. its a sad state of affairs, particularly as kids develop at different speeds, so if we Barney is deemed not good enough in first year he gets minimal game time for the school and still isn't allowed to develop at the club... its a shambles. I understand that youth need to be protected, however this a using a mallet to crack a nut situation that helps no one.

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Re: Any word on the Academy?

Post by Bayern » Tue Sep 07, 2021 2:18 pm


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