Ulster vs Dragons Live updates

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HoneyBadger
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Re: Ulster vs Dragons Live updates

Post by HoneyBadger »

We've played one team that's a likely top 5 finisher in the league, and were third...
Now why not discuss the standard of play in the second half, how ulster can't seem to concentrate for 80min.


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Re: Ulster vs Dragons Live updates

Post by Spiffsson »

HoneyBadger wrote:We've played one team that's a likely top 5 finisher in the league, and were third...
Now why not discuss the standard of play in the second half, how ulster can't seem to concentrate for 80min.


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The standard in the second half was totally abysmal. That was largely a bunch of Dragons second/third stringers/kids and they should have been dispatched easily for the bonus point. Paddy Jackson continues to offer no running threat to the opposition at all and plays a very predictable game. Olding was superb and is a great footballer - but that was against the Dragons, and he did get bullied v. Toulon last week (still - I'd like to see him get a run for Ireland in the AIs). Reidy had a good game at 7. What have they been feeding Ricky Andrew?- he is twice the size of last season; now he just needs to learn how to hold on to a pass. Diack - keeps trying hard but goes down so easily. Overall, a disjointed and disappointing headless chicken performance typified by a lack of on field smarts, know-how and leadership.
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Re: Ulster vs Dragons Live updates

Post by Jockster »

HoneyBadger wrote:We've played one team that's a likely top 5 finisher in the league, and were third...
Now why not discuss the standard of play in the second half, how ulster can't seem to concentrate for 80min.


Payne - Ireland's best 13.
Ok why don't you start it with some insight then. We won on a cold wet night. Yes the expectation (at least from supporters) was probably a bonus point and we kicked too much possession away, butchered a couple of chances and were inches away from two others. We sat back too much when it would appear that the call was to play conservatively, which is not surprising based on the conditions.

Payne is not the best 13 in Ireland--he is much better running from deep although I have heard he is one of (if not the fastest) in the squad. We could discuss that all night >burp
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Re: Ulster vs Dragons Live updates

Post by Jockster »

Does Diack ever break a tackle? His body position just seems wrong going into contact and is easy prey plus he doesn't have the physicality of (for example) Wannenberg previously. Saying that he probably has the best hands in the forwards, is a good line out option and not too shabby speed when he does get room.
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Re: Ulster vs Dragons Live updates

Post by Cockatrice »

From full strength Dragons to a 2nd or 3rd string Dragons I wish we could decide how poor a side that Dragons actually was...
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againstthehead
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Re: Ulster vs Dragons Live updates

Post by againstthehead »

Jockster wrote:Does Diack ever break a tackle? His body position just seems wrong going into contact and is easy prey plus he doesn't have the physicality of (for example) Wannenberg previously. Saying that he probably has the best hands in the forwards, is a good line out option and not too shabby speed when he does get room.
Never. Reminds me of big Pedrie. Huffs and puffs but not much in the way of go-forward. If you have a big pack around him, he's okay but to rely on him for carrying is a nightmare.

Haven't seen any of the game but a decent result given the players unavailable.
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Re: Ulster vs Dragons Live updates

Post by bazzaj »

Red wrote:
bazzaj wrote: You omit to mention there would be 4 years difference between the two at that stage and with age comes maturity.
Sexton was nutured into the Leinster side with Contepomi as a world class mentor.
In contrast PJ was completely thrown in at the deep end with both club and country.

I agree he isn't the most pleasing on the eye but he carries out coaches instruction and can deliver a game plan and thats why they like him.
Also his defence of a 10 channel is exceptional along with his distribution.
Don't get me wrong he is not playing well and there are things he can do a lot better like threaten the line or drop goal.
I do know the wee man and what I do know about him is that he has character in spade loads and always bounces back better.

Point taken Bazzaj and I do respect your and Neil F's opinions on this board.

My response would be that
a) I know Jackson is a better player that what he's showing at the minute, everyone's form dips
b) That he will continue to improve.

My point is that gap between where he is now and where we thought he could be remains considerable and I don't see the level of development to bridge it.

On your point about having a world class mentor, he's got that in Pienaar who can walk him through it every step, in a way that not even the great Felipe could for Sexton ... by being on the pitch. Who knows, maybe that's something that has hurt Jackson's development long term. That with Ruan making the decisions he's not had to take on as much responsibility as he should have. A friend of mine who knows more about rugby than I ever will always said that of Wilkinson. That he learnt his trade playing in a Newcastle team whose pack would be marched back game after game. If you can do well in those situations then you can excel when your pack is going forward.
The only reason I responded to your post Red is that it was thought out and not some of the knee jerk nonsense you get on here.
I can't argue with much of that other than I wonder how much UR is to do with his development or lack of it as there was the raw tools there no question.
Bear in mind player ddevelopment and back play were Doaks remit and Sexton had also the benefit of Schmidts coaching.
Joe definitely encourages heads up rugby whereas I always feel PJ looks over instructed.
PJ did benefit from those squad sessions with Ireland and that back injury that robbed him of the summer tour and the benefit of working with Joe again.
Last edited by bazzaj on Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ulster vs Dragons Live updates

Post by eeyore »

Wee Woman wrote:
damianmcr wrote:Marshall was poor tonight. Few silly mistakes. Pity Ludik had to come of early.
Are you guys all on the soup tonight or what :scratch:

That was the best game Small Paul has had in quite some time, if he was poor tonight I'd hate to think what he was last weekend!
p was as poor as he always is. Don't let a couple of decent breaks from the back of the scrum fool you. His decision making, speed of pass, accuracy of pass, time to get the ball from the ruck when it's presented to him on a plate is absolutely garbage. All of this does nothing for easing PJ back into form. Means that any aggressive defence is in the face of the first receiver (PJ). giving him no chance to get the backline going and leaves little alternative but to hoof it up the pitch. How the hell he got another contract continues to annoy me every week. In the first half, a Welsh guy behind me said, your scrumhalf looks a decent player. I told him to watch him for a while. Ten minutes later he was asking, what the hell is it with the step he takes before passing. We're screwed without Ruan
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Re: Ulster vs Dragons Live updates

Post by Rooster »

eeyore wrote:
Wee Woman wrote:
damianmcr wrote:Marshall was poor tonight. Few silly mistakes. Pity Ludik had to come of early.
Are you guys all on the soup tonight or what :scratch:

That was the best game Small Paul has had in quite some time, if he was poor tonight I'd hate to think what he was last weekend!
p was as poor as he always is. Don't let a couple of decent breaks from the back of the scrum fool you. His decision making, speed of pass, accuracy of pass, time to get the ball from the ruck when it's presented to him on a plate is absolutely garbage. All of this does nothing for easing PJ back into form. Means that any aggressive defence is in the face of the first receiver (PJ). giving him no chance to get the backline going and leaves little alternative but to hoof it up the pitch. How the hell he got another contract continues to annoy me every week. In the first half, a Welsh guy behind me said, your scrumhalf looks a decent player. I told him to watch him for a while. Ten minutes later he was asking, what the hell is it with the step he takes before passing. We're screwed without Ruan
It took him 10 minutes to realise that !
He is far too slow at getting to rucks never mind getting the ball away, Ruan never breaks sweat as he can read the way things are going and heads for where he expects the next ruck to be and gets there as the ball is presented and generally can get it away before the opposition have time to compete, p is too slow to realise and it is a mess when he arrives then everything is a blind panic
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Re: Ulster vs Dragons Live updates

Post by lovesthehardground »

Same old garbage being trawled out over and over again. Marshall,s crap, diack can't break a tackle, Payne is the worst 13 ever, Andrew can't catch/pass etc etc.
What did everyone expect? There were new combinations all over the park last night. A weird looking back row disrupted further very early on when Wilson went off. A back line with 3 full backs and the one playing 15 was not a regular fullback - go figure?? Then on top of that you had monsoon conditions just before kickoff.
Be happy with a win and relatively no injuries - Wilson and ludik hopefully will be OK. There were a few out there who have had 3/4 very hard matches in a row. Cut them some slack. Glasgow and Ospreys diudnt get bps either probably because of the sesame reasons.
A win was important. A bp would have been nice but hey I'm happy with 4.

Now get behind the team, show some empathy, and quit your moaning
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Re: Ulster vs Dragons Live updates

Post by LegsLikeSausages »

HoneyBadger wrote:We've played one team that's a likely top 5 finisher in the league, and were third...
Now why not discuss the standard of play in the second half, how ulster can't seem to concentrate for 80min.


Payne - Ireland's best 13.
Assuming the 'top 5' are Leinster, Glasgow, Ospreys, Ulster and Munster, then-

Ospreys have also only played one other and the others have only played two-

Ospreys- won 1
Glasgow- won 1, lost 1
Ulster- won 1
Munster- won 1, lost 1
Leinster- lost 2

In fact, after round 8, all the sides will have played exactly 2 games against top 5 opposition.

If we beat the Ospreys, we could be in the top two, over a third of the way into the season with a similarly difficult start to the season as the others.

I refer Snipe's original question back to you.
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Re: Ulster vs Dragons Live updates

Post by Fly Half »

Paul Marshall had a great game. He should do more sniping runs because he is so fast off the mark. His kick/run/pass decisions were good. He put in a couple of the best touch finders in the game and his passing was sympathetic to the conditions. It wasn't a night to be flinging high/low passes :) - Tom Shanklin would have given him the man of the match but then what does he know!

As for Doak - the litmus test of a coach is whether the team performs better in the second half compared to the first. Ulster have been doing that this season and it shows Doak is reading the game and giving good instructions at the turn.

The problem for Ulster this season has been the on-field decision making. Where are the experienced leaders who see what's working and what isn't and have the presence of mind to change tack?
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Re: Ulster vs Dragons Live updates

Post by Joe Schmo »

Of course Ulster will have Munster, Leinster & Connacht to play before the new year. Hopefully we'll have a few back (Tuohy, Trimble, Pienaar, maybe Hendo)otherwise I would expect us to lose at least one of those matches.

Last nights performance in the second half reminded me of Ulster from a few years ago where we would butcher chances and struggle to get through/around teams. I mean how many catch and drives did we try at the end of the match?
The constantly changing back line doesn't help and for all p's mad sprints up the pitch he just wasn't making the right decisions and making them quickly enough for my liking.

If Pienaar comes back to us only 50% in form it's going to be a huge improvement. It's not just his passing, as Rooster says it's how he reads the game and when on form just makes all the right decisions.
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HoneyBadger
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Ulster vs Dragons Live updates

Post by HoneyBadger »

I shall go back to my original point, I thought the performance last night was very poor. People who use the weather and our changes in our team as excuses... What team had the dragons on the pitch by the end of the match?
I'll say it again, ulster can rarely play 80 good minutes, concentration levels just break down.
Some of the handling errors and passes were brutal, they play enough in wet conditions, that shouldn't be an excuse. They weren't as evident in the first half which seems to demonstrate it's more mental rather than conditions.

Everybody has there opinions, that's what these forums are for. I've made my points and concerns, these are what I feel are problems right now. That's that people find the need to argue and debate the tom kite out of any topic that somebody doesn't agree with them on here.


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Re: Ulster vs Dragons Live updates

Post by rumncoke »

In the league 7 played lost 1 drawn 1 doesn't look bad but to honest those 2 games were games Ulster should have wanted to win . Similarly in the SDC Ulster should have wanted the win against Leicester, and that game is the one which disappoints most because it makes the rest of the games harder . I actually think Paddy had a reasonable game last night against a side whose defence was marginally offside on many occasions and based on the first receiver and rush on the second .

The defence was made easy for the Dragons because of the easily identified weakness wide once Ludic went off


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