Replacement 10

[Rooster]

If Logan is walking the plank soon should he be involved ?

In a joint statement following the verdict, the IRFU and Ulster Rugby said: "The IRFU and Ulster Rugby note the verdict handed down today at the Belfast Crown Court in relation to the case brought against Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding. We wish to acknowledge that this has undoubtedly been a difficult and extremely traumatic time for all involved.

"To respect the judicial proceedings the IRFU and Ulster Rugby postponed any internal review of the matter with the players, until the proceedings concluded.

"IRFU and Ulster Rugby officials will review the matter, in line with existing procedures for all contracted players. A Review Committee, made up of senior representatives of the IRFU and Ulster Rugby, has been appointed and will conclude its review as soon as practicable.

"The players will continue to be relieved of all duties while the Review Committee is in process and determining its findings."

[Snipe Watson]

So what is the difference between what PJ and Olding did and what Murray and Zebo got up to? Except of course M&Z had theirs captured on camera.

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no one claimed theirs wasn't consensual AFAIK.

And that claim has been rejected by a court.
So there is no difference.
For the jury in an 8 week trial to be unanimously agreed on 4 defendants and 6 charges is quite remarkable.
Especially as all the indications yesterday evening were that it was defendant 4, charges 5 and 6 that were occupying most of that time.
Their choices and sexual proclivities may have been morally questionable, but they should never have been aired in public never mind forming the totality of evidence in a gang rape trial.
If the IRFU shaft Paddy and Stu, I am done with UR and the IRFU.

[big mervyn]

So what is the difference between what PJ and Olding did and what Murray and Zebo got up to? Except of course M&Z had theirs captured on camera.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

no one claimed theirs wasn't consensual AFAIK.

And that claim has been rejected by a court.
So there is no difference.
For the jury in an 8 week trial to be unanimously agreed on 4 defendants and 6 charges is quite remarkable.
Especially as all the indications yesterday evening were that it was defendant 4, charges 5 and 6 that were occupying most of that time.
Their choices and sexual proclivities may have been morally questionable, but they should never have been aired in public never mind forming the totality of evidence in a gang rape trial.
If the IRFU shaft Paddy and Stu, I am done with UR and the IRFU.

Given that others have received little censure for criminal convictions, albeit of lesser gravity, it would be astounding if any further action were taken against the players. Suspension for a whole season is way beyond any punishment warranted for behaviour, which while not illegal, may have been deemed to have brought the club into disrepute.

[Rem99]

Any other Simons to be suspended pending review or just the not guilty Simons?!

[Rooster]

So what is the difference between what PJ and Olding did and what Murray and Zebo got up to? Except of course M&Z had theirs captured on camera.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

no one claimed theirs wasn't consensual AFAIK.

And that claim has been rejected by a court.
So there is no difference.
For the jury in an 8 week trial to be unanimously agreed on 4 defendants and 6 charges is quite remarkable.
Especially as all the indications yesterday evening were that it was defendant 4, charges 5 and 6 that were occupying most of that time.
Their choices and sexual proclivities may have been morally questionable, but they should never have been aired in public never mind forming the totality of evidence in a gang rape trial.
If the IRFU shaft Paddy and Stu, I am done with UR and the IRFU.

Actually there was a seventh charge of vaginal rape against Stu but it was dropped before the trial went to the jury, that was when I really started to feel this whole thing was going to be a fiasco from an evidence point of view.

[big mervyn]

Any other Simons to be suspended pending review or just the not guilty Simons?!

The social media messages and the excessive drinking are the only areas that should concern UR/IRFU. What went on in Paddy's house is now none of their business.

[Snipe Watson]

Sounds like there's gonna be a reckoning in the near future.

Paddy Jackson's solicitor says that during the trial "vile commentary expressed on social media, going well beyond fair comment, has polluted the sphere of public discourse and raised real concerns about the integrity of the trial process".
Joe McVeigh added: "All the lawyers have been distracted by having to man the barriers against a flood of misinformed, misconceived and malicious content on the internet particularly during the last phase of this trial and, worryingly, even at the hands of public servants who should have known better."

[pwrmoore]

So what is the difference between what PJ and Olding did and what Murray and Zebo got up to? Except of course M&Z had theirs captured on camera.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

no one claimed theirs wasn't consensual AFAIK.

And that claim has been rejected by a court.
So there is no difference.
For the jury in an 8 week trial to be unanimously agreed on 4 defendants and 6 charges is quite remarkable.
Especially as all the indications yesterday evening were that it was defendant 4, charges 5 and 6 that were occupying most of that time.
Their choices and sexual proclivities may have been morally questionable, but they should never have been aired in public never mind forming the totality of evidence in a gang rape trial.
If the IRFU shaft Paddy and Stu, I am done with UR and the IRFU.

You missed my point snipe. The essential difference was that there was an accusation of non-consensual activity in one and not in the other. This allowed a lot of ill-advised supposition and speculation on the part of opinionated parties who leapt to make judgement and condemn individuals in a way that could not have been done where no accusation of wrong-doing was made.

And I agree. Their names should not have been made public in the first place.

[Russ]

Paula Bradshaw has deleted hwr tweets

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Snipe Watson]

Any other Simons to be suspended pending review or just the not guilty Simons?!

The social media messages and the excessive drinking are the only areas that should concern UR/IRFU. What went on in Paddy's house is now none of their business.

The drinking was during down time between seasons, so nothing to see there. The WhatsApp activity is distasteful, but not illegal or likely to be a breach of their conduct clauses since the messages were within a closed group, not on a public forum.

[Snipe Watson]

So what is the difference between what PJ and Olding did and what Murray and Zebo got up to? Except of course M&Z had theirs captured on camera.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

no one claimed theirs wasn't consensual AFAIK.

And that claim has been rejected by a court.
So there is no difference.
For the jury in an 8 week trial to be unanimously agreed on 4 defendants and 6 charges is quite remarkable.
Especially as all the indications yesterday evening were that it was defendant 4, charges 5 and 6 that were occupying most of that time.
Their choices and sexual proclivities may have been morally questionable, but they should never have been aired in public never mind forming the totality of evidence in a gang rape trial.
If the IRFU shaft Paddy and Stu, I am done with UR and the IRFU.

You missed my point snipe. The essential difference was that there was an accusation of non-consensual activity in one and not in the other. This allowed a lot of ill-advised supposition and speculation on the part of opinionated parties who leapt to make judgement and condemn individuals in a way that could not have been done where no accusation of wrong-doing was made.

And I agree. Their names should not have been made public in the first place.

Yes I fully understood that, but the fact remains that none of that should have happened and the guys should not be punished for something beyond their control.
I don't see that they have a case to answer now that the court has spoken.

[Rooster]

Any other Simons to be suspended pending review or just the not guilty Simons?!

The social media messages and the excessive drinking are the only areas that should concern UR/IRFU. What went on in Paddy's house is now none of their business.

The drinking was during down time between seasons, so nothing to see there. The WhatsApp activity is distasteful, but not illegal or likely to be a breach of their conduct clauses since the messages were within a closed group, not on a public forum.

You do also have to remember that not all the messages were sent by Paddy or Stu and actually the most distasteful were not, some were not even involved in the actual trial either.

[BR]

As Not Guilty is not the same Innocent, never ... or not until after she is tested in court which is unlikely.

Awww you've gone all sensible lol

Fair point, not guilty does not equal innocent. It's not like they got off on a technicality though. I have to say I'm completely certain that they are completely innocent of the charges even though it will never be tested in court.

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'Not Guilty' is precisely the same thing as 'Innocent'!

[GUBU]

Paula Bradshaw has deleted hwr tweets

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Mrs Parsley makes a habit of mindless twittering.

Didn't she have to delete one after being threatened with a libel action by the Attorney General?

[Snipe Watson]

Any other Simons to be suspended pending review or just the not guilty Simons?!

The social media messages and the excessive drinking are the only areas that should concern UR/IRFU. What went on in Paddy's house is now none of their business.

The drinking was during down time between seasons, so nothing to see there. The WhatsApp activity is distasteful, but not illegal or likely to be a breach of their conduct clauses since the messages were within a closed group, not on a public forum.

You do also have to remember that not all the messages were sent by Paddy or Stu and actually the most distasteful were not, some were not even involved in the actual trial either.

Correct.