New - Warren Gatland of the week

[Bogbunny]

Also Matt McCullough allegedly called Armitage a spade.

Spade does not ring true as a Norn Irn term of abuse and certainly would not be the first word to come to mind when looking for a pejorative term for a gentleman of colour such as Mr Armitage. Spide on the other hand ..

Indeed that was the defence for Matt.

[Bart S]

Any excuse to launch a swipe at our boys, BR? Please explain to the board how they 'acted badly'? What did you mean by 'got up to'? Doesn't sound like something good.

This is one of the strangest versions of whataboutery I have ever witnessed. Stop comparing what happened to our boys with this incident. Please just stop it. Two careers ruined because of sponsorship pressure and a weak/corrupt FIRFU. It is insensitive to all involved to compare it to this nonsense.

This is not a criminal trial. It is possible to make an inference based on probability. If one party is accused and accepts their fate, I cannot deny their own acceptance. Where have I made any statement about seeing some single statement as true? I have merely accepted the remarks of acceptance from the club.

I have nothing more to say. Keep your whataboutery to yourself and leave our boys alone.

I'm not implying anything by 'got up to'. I mean their actions and activities, none of which have been found to be criminal.

Again I don't know what all happened that night, and crucially, neither do I pretend to.

Conflicting testimonies were given regarding some activities, do you know which ones are true? I don't.
There may well have been other parts of the night on which no testimonies were made.

Ultimately a young woman was left in a pretty poor state. Did someone 'act badly'? The IRFU seemed to think so. IIRC PJ and SO expressed regret for the events of the evening.

As you say the IRFU are not conducting criminal (or even civil) trials so they don't have to apply the same rigours. They are applying disciplinary sanctions on those within their jurisdiction (be they clubs or employees). They have done that in both cases.

While the 2 events are not even in the same league, I find the difference in reaction here interesting.

On the one hand condemning a witch hunt and on the other breaking out the pitch forks and burning torches.

I think there is a significant difference in this event BR I that nobody has asyet denied that the 80 minutes of sustained verbal abuse actually took place. Barring any such denial it is fair to accept it actually happened, whereas the allegations against the two young gentlemen was tested in a court of law and depending on your viewpoint, either didn’t happen or was unproven.

Comparing dandelions with fish is not something you hear of much these days.

In summary in this case, those with pitchforks have no denials to deal with. Light the torches, to the ramparts. (This forum is in desperate need of an angry mob smilie)

Remember the time we terrace dwellers were accused of making a racist comment (I have a Welsh player in my mind, but can't remember who it was). That was pretty difficult for UR to disprove. IIRC they investigated but could not find anyone who had said anything untoward. (I know it wasn't you or me or Cap'n Grumpy, after that I can't be sure.)

Aled Brew IIRC playing for Newport Dragons. Dodgy Dodgy kicker was the chant.

Pretty sure the Armitage Spide thing, this and the Trevor Brennan sectarian chanting accusations all happened within the space of a few weeks. And we were in pretty poor form results wise as well.

[Rugby Nomad]

Baggy, I'll try to answer your questions. Firstly I am not a member of CRFC, I have a relative who plays for them and most of this information has come from him. The players are as fed up with this as anyone. Secondly this is not meant as a defence of the club only to repeat the noises coming out of the club.

The four men are well know within the club. One has links to a sponsor, at what level I don't know. At least one is a former president. All deny making any sexist comments. Tellingly I've heard no-one deny abuse of ref.

I was told that the club weren't allowed to offer a defence at the branch hearing, therefore the club feel they have been badly treated by the branch.

The club take the view that there are discrepancies in the ref's version of events. She describes the crowd separating themselves from the 4, the club say the weather was so bad nearly everyone else went into the clubhouse. The club take exception to the alleged use of the word ho, this word isn't common parlance in Coleraine and they think it unlikely to be used. She described them as wearing blazers but all were in overcoats because of the bad weather.

The above is the clubs version, below is my opinion/supposition.

I've spent a little time in the company of one of the four. He can be very entertaining but with drink taken can be boorish. The branch tried to sweep it under the carpet and didn't investigate it properly. If the branch did properly investigate and resolve the inconsistencies the club may have taken action against the four, as it is they feel hard done to and are circling the wagons. I doubt the reported events are exactly what happened but think something inappropriate definately happened. The branch are getting away without their failings being reported.

Unfortunately every club has these boorish members and refs get abuse at most clubs and are fed up with it, this is the straw that broke the camels back.

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[Gerald the Mole]

Slightly accurate, still trying to disassociate with the vile comments, so boorish behaviour now, what’s next “lads just having a laugh”

The club were given an early opportunity to explain their version of the account, but you know that already. As they were defending the guilty . 2 ex presidents I believe .

In my club the words “go fûck yersef you big piece of pig shît” is not common either, but I have heard it used ,

Yup the Branch badly mishandled it, that’s because those in position are totally inept , more concerned of self promotion bunch of self serving amateurs with their snouts in the gravey train , not all may I add , good honest guys but a small majority there proudly serving themselves.

A lie which is half a truth is ever the blackest of lies.

[big mervyn]

this is the straw that broke the camels back.

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As long as it's not the camel's toe.

So, they dinna say ho hi? Ludacris must no longer be on the committee, or maybe he's just gone incognegro?

[Cockatrice]

It was all so much easier when we could call a spade a spade... I do however recall a few seasons ago posting comments made by a spectator against a French referee during a European Cup match... the reaction on here from several well known posters was it was seemingly game to direct racial abuse at that referee... but maybe times have change.

I may be wrong but the matter has been badly handled from the initial investigation.. hence the current clusterfuucck

Are we once again seeing evidence of the same cabal at work.:.

[BR]

Any excuse to launch a swipe at our boys, BR? Please explain to the board how they 'acted badly'? What did you mean by 'got up to'? Doesn't sound like something good.

This is one of the strangest versions of whataboutery I have ever witnessed. Stop comparing what happened to our boys with this incident. Please just stop it. Two careers ruined because of sponsorship pressure and a weak/corrupt FIRFU. It is insensitive to all involved to compare it to this nonsense.

This is not a criminal trial. It is possible to make an inference based on probability. If one party is accused and accepts their fate, I cannot deny their own acceptance. Where have I made any statement about seeing some single statement as true? I have merely accepted the remarks of acceptance from the club.

I have nothing more to say. Keep your whataboutery to yourself and leave our boys alone.

I'm not implying anything by 'got up to'. I mean their actions and activities, none of which have been found to be criminal.

Again I don't know what all happened that night, and crucially, neither do I pretend to.

Conflicting testimonies were given regarding some activities, do you know which ones are true? I don't.
There may well have been other parts of the night on which no testimonies were made.

Ultimately a young woman was left in a pretty poor state. Did someone 'act badly'? The IRFU seemed to think so. IIRC PJ and SO expressed regret for the events of the evening.

As you say the IRFU are not conducting criminal (or even civil) trials so they don't have to apply the same rigours. They are applying disciplinary sanctions on those within their jurisdiction (be they clubs or employees). They have done that in both cases.

While the 2 events are not even in the same league, I find the difference in reaction here interesting.

On the one hand condemning a witch hunt and on the other breaking out the pitch forks and burning torches.

I think there is a significant difference in this event BR I that nobody has asyet denied that the 80 minutes of sustained verbal abuse actually took place. Barring any such denial it is fair to accept it actually happened, whereas the allegations against the two young gentlemen was tested in a court of law and depending on your viewpoint, either didn’t happen or was unproven.

Comparing dandelions with fish is not something you hear of much these days.

In summary in this case, those with pitchforks have no denials to deal with. Light the torches, to the ramparts. (This forum is in desperate need of an angry mob smilie)

Ein Riot ist ein ugly Thing!

I believe there are those who deny things happened as Crabtree's states.

There also seems to be those who deny personal involvement.

These are individuals; not the club.

[Tender]

Could ya all feck aff with the quotes of bigass posts. Just mention who you’re directing your reply to, say yer bit and sit back and open the popcorn.

[BR]

Also Matt McCullough allegedly called Armitage a spade.

Spade does not ring true as a Norn Irn term of abuse and certainly would not be the first word to come to mind when looking for a pejorative term for a gentleman of colour such as Mr Armitage. Spide on the other hand ..

Indeed that was the defence for Matt.

That was in fact true. Armitage heard 'spide bástard', but was advised after the game that it must have been 'spade bástard'.

The disciplinary hearing accepted that McCullough was not being racist, but gave him a ban for calling another a player a bástard, regardless of the adjective.

[BR]

Aled Brew IIRC playing for Newport Dragons. Dodgy Dodgy kicker was the chant.

cheers!

Pretty sure the Armitage Spide thing, this and the Trevor Brennan sectarian chanting accusations all happened within the space of a few weeks. And we were in pretty poor form results wise as well.

Don't forget we spat at Alfie.

[BR]

... the two young gentlemen

Cmon Baggy, you know better than to use such emotive terminology!

[Dave]

Could ya all feck aff with the quotes of bigass posts. Just mention who you’re directing your reply to, say yer bit and sit back and open the popcorn.

Think this the post minor disagreement phase where we all basically have the same opinion on everything.

#freetommy

[big mervyn]

#freetommy

Under house arrest in Comber?

[Dave]

#freetommy

Under house arrest in Comber?

Too many new players in the programme. His ticker cannot hack it.

[rumncoke]

Having lived in Coleraine for 7 years I would believe the referee could well have been subject to abuse .
At club level, abuse of referees is nothing new — ask any referee or player who has played at Donaghadee — usually sort of chants of rubbish etc at any decision given against the home team .

Any referee coming from L/Derry would get abuse at Coleraine regardless of sex there being little love lost between Coleraine and L’Derry .It goes back generations .

Given the Branch says the issue is dead — who is dropping the info to the media and why ?

As I said previously worse abuse has been heaped on women in a bar and it isn’t newsworthy

But — middle class rugby — target for the year — on social media and BBC

And you lot feed the trolls .



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