What are we feeding them?

Talk about the men in white, and everything Ulster!!

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HammerTime
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What are we feeding them?

Post by HammerTime » Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:54 pm

Or what aren't we feeding them?

Our Ulster born forwards.

Look at Leinster, Munster and even Connacht and the youngsters coming through in their packs are absolute monsters and hard as fr!g even in their young 20's. Anything that comes through here looks like they've never seen a dumbbell in their lives and are generally soft as sh!te. What is going on? As has been the case for years we can produce backs as good as any but where are all the hard lads? The farmers? The animals/mongrels? Overall I'm massively upbeat about Ulster at the minute but without the Leinster cast offs we'd be nowhere.

Evil Kiwi
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Re: What are we feeding them?

Post by Evil Kiwi » Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:02 am

Dublin based private schools have professional setups with strength and conditioning coaches and expert nutrition advice etc. Gym sessions from 6am before leasons. The kids are walking round like tanks, pumping ron all day and getting steak for brekkie.

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solidarity
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Re: What are we feeding them?

Post by solidarity » Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:58 pm

This is a crucial question you're asking. Why are we not producing any number of serious forwards? Do we have to depend on private schools doing the job for us? Is there not a way for UR to take things into their own hands? Or coming at it from the other direction, what is the ongoing connection between UR and the schools? For example, do the schools have access to UR training facilities?
How can we get more schools interested in rugby?
If there seem to be a lot more kids playing mini-ruby, where do they all go?
If our big schools can hold their own with the big Dublin schools, (well almost) why can't their best players push on?
Yes, I'm just venting... all the same answers would be good.

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Kofi Annan
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Re: What are we feeding them?

Post by Kofi Annan » Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:16 pm

HammerTime wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:54 pm
Or what aren't we feeding them?

Our Ulster born forwards.

Look at Leinster, Munster and even Connacht and the youngsters coming through in their packs are absolute monsters and hard as fr!g even in their young 20's. Anything that comes through here looks like they've never seen a dumbbell in their lives and are generally soft as sh!te. What is going on? As has been the case for years we can produce backs as good as any but where are all the hard lads? The farmers? The animals/mongrels? Overall I'm massively upbeat about Ulster at the minute but without the Leinster cast offs we'd be nowhere.
What Ulster forwards are you talking about ?
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Aird
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Re: What are we feeding them?

Post by Aird » Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:25 pm

Part of the problem is the lack of university places here in N.Ireland which leads to many opting for university either in England and Scotland. I can remember many years ago going toTrinity College on a Friday afternoon to watch the Irish Universities play the Scottish Universities and half the students on the Scots side were from Ulster.
The other problem is that whilst backs mature at a relative young age and the academy is starting to churn out some really talented backs it takes longer for forwards to mature and I think given time they will start to appear. There aren’t many in the nicest possible way freaks like Ian Henderson or James Ryan. I think that we have been fortunate to entice Eric O’Sulivan north as I reckon he is a real find.
Whilst yes it would be good to have more young Ulster Forwards but we have developed the likes of Alan O'Connor, Jones and O’Toole and I don’t se any lack of commitment from them as Ulstermen.

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Re: What are we feeding them?

Post by therealspratt » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:37 am

And we haven't even any decent scrumhalves to show from our dessicated youngsters until perhaps this batch of McKee, and Doak.

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Kofi Annan
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Re: What are we feeding them?

Post by Kofi Annan » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:19 pm

Aird wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:25 pm
Part of the problem is the lack of university places here in N.Ireland which leads to many opting for university either in England and Scotland. I can remember many years ago going toTrinity College on a Friday afternoon to watch the Irish Universities play the Scottish Universities and half the students on the Scots side were from Ulster.
The other problem is that whilst backs mature at a relative young age and the academy is starting to churn out some really talented backs it takes longer for forwards to mature and I think given time they will start to appear. There aren’t many in the nicest possible way freaks like Ian Henderson or James Ryan. I think that we have been fortunate to entice Eric O’Sulivan north as I reckon he is a real find.
Whilst yes it would be good to have more young Ulster Forwards but we have developed the likes of Alan O'Connor, Jones and O’Toole and I don’t se any lack of commitment from them as Ulstermen.
So, you think it’s a factor of players going away to university!
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Vanhelsing
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Re: What are we feeding them?

Post by Vanhelsing » Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:37 pm

Always said our props need to be bigger but I think our boys are doing well.

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ken2mj
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Re: What are we feeding them?

Post by ken2mj » Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:54 am

There's just something about those southern taytos.

armalig
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Re: What are we feeding them?

Post by armalig » Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:57 pm

Ref farming folks ... Ulster rugby like it or not is a Belfast area Rugby team .. I know few lads who made the UR programs / development squads but geographically could not commit to training demands on weekly basis ... lot of talent missing the boat here ...
few young lads had to move /board to Belfast schools to get recognised & fit in all the reqd schedules .. it’s not for everyone but like in any sport it’s not always ability it’s how u can fit it into yur life . Exceptions there are ... Rory / bull Hayes / SOB etc but lot of wasted talent Too....
Back in day I made underage squads but my fam couldn’t commit to current demands 4sure..
No easy games west of Bann where traditionally country players turn out .. #cityclub

Andy_in_France
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Re: What are we feeding them?

Post by Andy_in_France » Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:32 pm

armalig wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:57 pm
Ref farming folks ... Ulster rugby like it or not is a Belfast area Rugby team
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that the school with the most former players in the Ulster set-up is Ballymena Academy, exploding the idea that it is a Belfast area team. Of course, being from Ballymena Academy doesn't mean being a farmer, despite what the city folks say.

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Re: What are we feeding them?

Post by bangorboy » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:12 pm

Andy_in_France wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:32 pm
armalig wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:57 pm
Ref farming folks ... Ulster rugby like it or not is a Belfast area Rugby team
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that the school with the most former players in the Ulster set-up is Ballymena Academy, exploding the idea that it is a Belfast area team. Of course, being from Ballymena Academy doesn't mean being a farmer, despite what the city folks say.
UR run weekly sessions at Ballymena for underage teams. There was pretty high representation from ‘country’ players during my lads time in U16-U19 squads.

One issue is that the academy is small, and opportunities for young players to progress are limited. UR choose players well after final Uni choices have been made - which is a problem. Was pulled into Ravenhill for a parents presentation about future options for high performance players and they told us Uni of Ulster could offer extra points for players on the pathway ( make a C a B or a B an A ) which would have been really helpful to know had offers not had to be in and accepted weeks beforehand.

The whole sub academy issue grates with me too. Do the same work and effort for nothing in the hope you might get thrown a bone at some point.

I’d like to see the Academy as a team, who can train and work as a single unit, rather than having them cast to half a dozen clubs for playing time. Unlikely to Work though unless all teams do the same. The French have the right idea - all Top14 and ProD2 run an espoirs (hopefuls) team of under 22s with three competitive divisions playing about 20 games a year. Of course they have higher budgets but some of the smaller teams on similar budgets to Ulster have more competitive teams than the big TOP14 outfits.
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Re: What are we feeding them?

Post by big mervyn » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:32 pm

Andy_in_France wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:32 pm
armalig wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:57 pm
Ref farming folks ... Ulster rugby like it or not is a Belfast area Rugby team
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that the school with the most former players in the Ulster set-up is Ballymena Academy, exploding the idea that it is a Belfast area team. Of course, being from Ballymena Academy doesn't mean being a farmer, despite what the city folks say.
Aye. 10-15% are cattle dealers >EW
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Re: What are we feeding them?

Post by Aird » Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:01 am

I agree with Bangor Boy Ulster are leaving it too late to commit to potential Academy players. Most players and parents are only too aware of the fragility of the career of a pro player and unless they are outstanding then university ot college choice is the priority.
Also can’t overlook the length of time takes for most forwards to mature physically, I know that there are exceptions you. Can quote but most forwards mature later than their backs contemporaries.

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Re: What are we feeding them?

Post by rumncoke » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:53 am

Its not that backs mature quicker it is the physical basics of the positions are different --- Backs survive on pace -- but forwards require strength and power and the latter is slower to develop very few schoolboy props can prop successfully against a 24 year old AIL prop forward or school boy backs rows clear an AIL forward out of a ruck the strength and technique have to be developed .

But a school boy back could evade his AIL counterpart but may find the knocks at tackle time to be harder , once watched an ex schoolboy ( first year student centre just bounce of his bigger older slower opposite number --) embarrassing .
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