New Scrum Half?

Talk about the men in white, and everything Ulster!!

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
UlsterNo9
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 5708
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:02 pm

Re: New Scrum Half?

Post by UlsterNo9 »

Lets address the elephant in the room, since the turn of rugby to professionalism we have produced one Ulster born scrum half in Paul Marshall that has held down any length of game time.

Even with no academy in place we should have had more than that in the last twenty years.

:shock: :shock:
BRING OUR BOYS HOME #BOBH
THROWN UNDER THE BUS AND EXILED 14/04/18
Bart S
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 4306
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:48 am

Re: New Scrum Half?

Post by Bart S »

UlsterNo9 wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:48 pm Lets address the elephant in the room, since the turn of rugby to professionalism we have produced one Ulster born scrum half in Paul Marshall that has held down any length of game time.

Even with no academy in place we should have had more than that in the last twenty years.

:shock: :shock:
Since the start of the 2000's what about Neil Doak??

But regardless, i get your point that the production has been woeful.
User avatar
UlsterNo9
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 5708
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:02 pm

Re: New Scrum Half?

Post by UlsterNo9 »

Bart S wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:35 pm
UlsterNo9 wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:48 pm Lets address the elephant in the room, since the turn of rugby to professionalism we have produced one Ulster born scrum half in Paul Marshall that has held down any length of game time.

Even with no academy in place we should have had more than that in the last twenty years.

:shock: :shock:
Since the start of the 2000's what about Neil Doak??

But regardless, i get your point that the production has been woeful.
I did think of him Bart but Doak was not an academy product, he made his debut for Ulster in 1995, the same year rugby became professional in Ireland, there was no academy then.

Academy only came about in early 2000s I believe.

Even with no planning, we should have produced a Pro 14 standard scrum half in the last two decades.
BRING OUR BOYS HOME #BOBH
THROWN UNDER THE BUS AND EXILED 14/04/18
User avatar
kingofthehill
Red Hand Ambassador
Posts: 2663
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:43 am

Re: New Scrum Half?

Post by kingofthehill »

Columbo wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:19 pm
kingofthehill wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:07 pm
launish116 wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:24 pm Am i missing something Re. Lewis Finlay?

He has been very very good for Ireland U20s
He’s a decent AIL player.

As I have said many times before they made a mistake when they choose Stewart over O’Donnell.
Finlay was at Hinch last year and couldn’t get near the 1s because ROD was there. Hence why he left to go to Malone.

They will now throw all the eggs in Doak’s basket but to be fair, he’s a cracker!
I don't think that's quite fair on Finlay - he has looked very good at U-20 level, and these days U-20 is a consistently high standard, and while it's not unheard of for a player to go nowhere after shining at U-20, it has recently tended to be a very good indicator of a good future. I haven't seen quite enough of him just yet, but I think he's been very impressive so far. As for being behind ROD, it's not really surprising given that back then he would have been what 18? And ROD with a couple of seasons under his belt - I know you are a big ROD fan, and I am too up to a point, but I have to say that while I've often been impressed by him at Hinch, I'm not sure he has stood out so much that it's obvious to me he should be in the Ulster squad..

I do think he's better than Stewart though - Stewart played for the 20s for a couple of years, but a relatively weak team, and didn't really stand out, in fact what I remember most is his kicks continually being charged down!
I'm happy to stand by the comment regarding Finlay, he will end up playing for Jersey in 3 years. I hope i'm wrong by the way.

If Doak was available to play in the U20 WC I know for a fact he would be there.

Have to question the ability for Ulster staff to develop/select scrumhalves underage. Can't think of many that have been developed at Ulster in the last decade.
The King is dead. Long live the King.
User avatar
big mervyn
Rí­ na Cúige Uladh
Posts: 14360
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 2:22 pm
Location: Overlooking the pitch (til they built the old new stand)

Re: New Scrum Half?

Post by big mervyn »

What age is Ruan's wee lad? He was born here wasn't he?
Volunteer at an animal sanctuary; it will fill you with joy , despair, but most of all love, unconditional love of the animals.
Big Neville Southall
therealspratt
Warrior Chief
Posts: 1617
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:53 pm

Re: New Scrum Half?

Post by therealspratt »

UlsterNo9 wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:31 pm
therealspratt wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:25 pm
Snipe Watson wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:14 am
launish116 wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:24 pm Am i missing something Re. Lewis Finlay?

He has been very very good for Ireland U20s
There is a vast chasm between U20 standard of play and the professional game.
Though in Shanahan and Stewart we have players who didn't even deliver at that level.
Shanahan didn't, but Stewart did he was involved with U20 for two years.
And was not especially good when he played with them.
therealspratt
Warrior Chief
Posts: 1617
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:53 pm

Re: New Scrum Half?

Post by therealspratt »

I'm not especially fussed on Doak yet from what I've seen of him. In my mind he's another Conor Young, but I hope I'm wrong.
User avatar
kingofthehill
Red Hand Ambassador
Posts: 2663
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:43 am

Re: New Scrum Half?

Post by kingofthehill »

therealspratt wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:13 pm I'm not especially fussed on Doak yet from what I've seen of him. In my mind he's another Conor Young, but I hope I'm wrong.
You are definitely wrong.

Doak is a class act from the matches I have watched.
The King is dead. Long live the King.
User avatar
UlsterNo9
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 5708
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:02 pm

Re: New Scrum Half?

Post by UlsterNo9 »

therealspratt wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:13 pm I'm not especially fussed on Doak yet from what I've seen of him. In my mind he's another Conor Young, but I hope I'm wrong.
Watching a different player from myself, Doak stands out among his peers like a sore thumb.

Reads the game very well, seems to have an age on the ball when required. Has a long crisp pass on him.

What I like about Doak is that although he hasn't grown into his frame yet, he's a decent size of a lad. He has a bit of a physical presence about him not the stereotypical 5ft 5 terrier.

His kicking game against Australia Schools was terrific, had their back three all over the place.
BRING OUR BOYS HOME #BOBH
THROWN UNDER THE BUS AND EXILED 14/04/18
Amiga500
Warrior Chief
Posts: 1691
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:42 pm

Re: New Scrum Half?

Post by Amiga500 »

UlsterNo9 wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:16 pm He has a bit of a physical presence about him not the stereotypical 5ft 5 terrier.
The day of that kinda scrum half was drawing to a close around 15 years ago!

Unfortunately we've persisted with them till now. They need to be 80kgs plus these days otherwise they are a non-entity in defence - regardless of bravery.

Unfortunate, but another casualty to the freaky size of professional players I guess.
User avatar
Tender
Red Hand Ambassador
Posts: 2833
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:23 pm
Location: Not Spain

Re: New Scrum Half?

Post by Tender »

And steroids
Support the Team, not the regime
Guinness is Good For You.
User avatar
solidarity
Chancellor to the King
Posts: 3884
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:00 pm

Re: New Scrum Half?

Post by solidarity »

Tender wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:59 pmAnd steroids
Speaking of which, I guess most people have seen: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50785122 .

Shame on the lad's parents.
therealspratt
Warrior Chief
Posts: 1617
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:53 pm

Re: New Scrum Half?

Post by therealspratt »

Amiga500 wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:51 pm
UlsterNo9 wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:16 pm He has a bit of a physical presence about him not the stereotypical 5ft 5 terrier.
The day of that kinda scrum half was drawing to a close around 15 years ago!

Unfortunately we've persisted with them till now. They need to be 80kgs plus these days otherwise they are a non-entity in defence - regardless of bravery.

Unfortunate, but another casualty to the freaky size of professional players I guess.
I feel this would hold more water had any of the small scrumhalves Ulster brought into their system actually been any good. The truth is that our scrumhalves haven't been too small, they've just not been any good. Either the talent hasn't been there or the academy hasn't been able to identify it, and I lean towards the latter.
Post Reply