Concussive traumatic brain injuries

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big mervyn
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Concussive traumatic brain injuries

Post by big mervyn » Tue Dec 08, 2020 5:52 pm

This is the tip of a very large iceberg

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55201237
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Re: Concussive traumatic brain injuries

Post by rumncoke » Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:30 pm

It’s not helped by forearm “handoffs” frequently favoured by forwards running straight at defenders — with no attempt to run round or avoid contact with head .

If a defender ran at a ball carrier with the same intent he’d be red carded

The LI v Sale match there were many instances

Players have a duty of care for themselves and their opponents and I can’t see a player successful holding the IRFU responsible .

Brain damage is a most often the accumulated affect over a large number of games.

There is no doubt a change in the manner a scrum goes down might lessen the load being placed on the front row — from 3-4-1 to 3-2-3 — it would also reduce the ability to bore .
Last edited by rumncoke on Sat Dec 12, 2020 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Concussive traumatic brain injuries

Post by rocky » Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:19 pm

The first thing that needs to happen is for heavy contact in training to be strictly limited, That had a major beneficial effect when it happened in American football. Then further thought needs to be given to the tackle and ruck situations. There is no question but that this will cause the game to change in future but perhaps it may change for the better. I hope so, anyway.
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solidarity
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Re: Concussive traumatic brain injuries

Post by solidarity » Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:54 pm

Could all of this lead to a more open entertaining game? RU is beginning to look more like RL and even a baby step closer to American football so better health leading to a better game would be a win/win.

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Re: Concussive traumatic brain injuries

Post by Loki » Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:21 am

rocky wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:19 pm
The first thing that needs to happen is for heavy contact in training to be strictly limited, That had a major beneficial effect when it happened in American football. Then further thought needs to be given to the tackle and ruck situations. There is no question but that this will cause the game to change in future but perhaps it may change for the better. I hope so, anyway.
Flabbergasted at some of the stories coming out around this re the sheer frequency of concussions in training. Unbelievable, completely unsustainable, and something you'd suspect will age very poorly - particularly those playing under some of the modern 'warfare' intensity trainers such as Eddie Jones.

Similarly the policing of the ruck has long been a shambles - the citation from the English Prem over weekend a prime example of head-first dives onto prone players that never gets pinged. Jackalling with your head and neck exposed while a ref is looking directly at you and counting the potshots...a rethink on that aspect of the game is very long overdue!

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Re: Concussive traumatic brain injuries

Post by BR » Thu Dec 10, 2020 1:29 am

Remove the bias towards the attack at the ruck and reduce the incentive to take the ball into contact and the incentive to tackle high. Encourage legal rucking at rucks rather than clear-outs.

And all without the hassle of having to rewrite the laws.
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Re: Concussive traumatic brain injuries

Post by mid ulster maestro » Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:27 am

Concussion the movie is worth a watch. Highlights the effects of brain trauma caused by concussion on NFL players. Leads to personallity disorders and suicide.
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Re: Concussive traumatic brain injuries

Post by TopPoster » Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:59 pm

Max Weight limits for the pack.

Flankers bind to the 2nd Rows arses in scrums.

Reduce subs to 5: 2 front rows, 1 lock/back row, 2 backs. Will encourage more playing time and mobile/multi-roled players reducing muscle mass and weight.

Have a time limit on scrum forming. Call ‘Form’ and give 10secs to do so. Someone takes a knee to slow down the scrum formation - free kick and play on.

Ban all armour and padding except scrum caps. POM looks like an NFL quarterback with his shoulder pads.

Ban leading with forearm into contact.

Ban support players binding to the attacker into contact so tackler is tackling mass and momentum of one player only.

Slightly related but sick of the massive entourage who run onto the pitch every time the play stops. Only allow medics to attend a injury. Water boys aka coaches can’t cross touchline so players have to run for a Powerade. And stop the subs running on to slap backs for a score or penalty award.

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Re: Concussive traumatic brain injuries

Post by Blackskulllad » Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:45 pm

The game can't carry on in it's current form.

It's a weird analogy but one f is a good example. You take a car and tune it and race it and it gives up.

Ferris etc have had too much power through the chassis. Suspension breaks.

Thankfully lower joint injuries are less serious than head injuries.

Byrne at ten for Ireland has got alot of stick recently. Having watched the ginger prince this past few weeks he has been ripping it up. The issue he waits for the tackler, releasing a teammate. He gets smashed.

Is Byrne making a decision to look after himself?

What we know for sure is that late hit Lawes and his type shouldnt have a place on the field. The flip side is an attacker dropping the shoulder and running into a defender. I can't see how Treadwell should have been banned.

Plenty of tough decisions.

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Re: Concussive traumatic brain injuries

Post by BR » Sat Dec 12, 2020 1:19 pm

The changes IRB should be making should not be changes to make the more dangerous behaviour illegal, but to make it unnecessary/tactically inappropriate and simply rarer.
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Re: Concussive traumatic brain injuries

Post by rumncoke » Sat Dec 12, 2020 1:39 pm

Topposter

You've been reading my posts and have started to see the light

3-2-3 scrums-- ban forearm "handoffs. " ban and penalise pre binding before the tackle. penalise "ruck charging" -- a "ruck charger " is the player who joins the ruck late after it has formed -- either flying over the top or into the back of an opponent sneaking round ruck or maul.

Scrum caps in my opinion provide little if any protection but do have the affect of making the player head "aware" when committing to the tackle thus avoiding getting the head in the wrong place in front of the carriers legs.

The fact is most head injuries happen to the tackler rather than the ball carrier yet the laws of the game are designed to protect the ball carrier. -- no head tackles, no tip tackles etc while the ball carrier " shoulders down " forearms up " knee -ups " and" hip hits" the tackler with immunity .
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Re: Concussive traumatic brain injuries

Post by UlsterNo9 » Sat Dec 12, 2020 3:47 pm

rumncoke wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 1:39 pm
Topposter

You've been reading my posts
That's a wild accusation to make Rumn
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Re: Concussive traumatic brain injuries

Post by Bobbievee » Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:48 am

:stir: Rumn
Your expansive knowledge of 'll aspects of the game makes me ask did you play in all 15 positions over time or do you have a specialism e.g. Front row, back row, utility back etc ext
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Re: Concussive traumatic brain injuries

Post by rumncoke » Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:39 pm

Bobby
After I left school I played in the back row and ended up 10 years later playing in the front row but most of my experience is second hand from my Da who played for Malone and NIRF&CC.and was a selector for a third club. He never talked about rugby TO you -- he talked rugby AT you.

Yes the game is a different now due to a number things.

Players are fitter ( faster) and heavier now which makes the game more dangerous

The laws of the game have changed ( some have improved the game others have made the game less attractive to players in the lower divisions)

The biggest change in the game is the ball . When the Laws of the game were first formulated a penalty was less assured to result in points being scored, the most common form of breakdown was either, a knock -on , which was more frequent then due the ball and law defining a knock-on or the ball had become unplayable stuck in a ruck, both restarts were scrums.

Because of the increased weight of packs a scrum now is a very dangerous event which has resulted in the ritual to set the scrum which is time consuming and frequently fails due to props either seeking advantage or trying to avoid disadvantage . Referees have opted for a easy solution of awarding the penalties to the team who is dominant in the scrum , except scrum dominance 9 times out of 10 is only achievable by illegal means thus referees are rewarding illegal play and encouraging disruption of the scrum.

The effect of penalties, due to both the ball and size of forwards overcompensates for breakdown infringements, The penalty can be rewarded basically on the whim of referee who may have a choice as to how he defines the infringement -- one referees failure to release the ball may be a failure to release after the tackle . a foot off side at the breakdown on the half way can become 3 points or 7 points with a kick to the corner -- the player off side could 5 metres ( 15 feet appox ) away from the ball. ( penalties are also as time consuming as scrums )

Thus the game has become a game of patience retain possession by short passes to fat forwards who are reserving their energy and effort until the penalty takes play into the opposition 22.

The crowd want to see backs run 50 metres and this is only possible when the defence line becomes disrupted and the team who can defend has always the chance to win.

The laws need to be revised to protect the tackler, make scrums less dangerous, and decisions of referees less influential to the result.

Bobby it is basically watch and understand what you see -- the lesson I learnt from my father was to watch the game impartially ie. you learn as much watching the opposition as from the team you are supporting.
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Re: Concussive traumatic brain injuries

Post by Bobbievee » Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:12 pm

Rumn
Thank you.
I enjoy your posts; wasn't meaning to challenge you!
I was a back most of my life , with the occasional foray into wing forward....under old offside laws, and once I had learned to tackle properly.
But the front row has always been a mystery to me ..........and I noticed the Scottish commentator on Amazon Prime ( former back international) in the Ire V Scot match admitting to the same!

cheers
B

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