Futureproofing after Marcell

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The_Nose_Knows
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Futureproofing after Marcell

Post by The_Nose_Knows » Sun Dec 27, 2020 5:01 pm

Marcell's going he'll be missed but should he really be missed as much as we will miss him? We need to address the future not just the next 3-4 years with an import of some description. We should have 3/4 academy and sub academy or even AIL players throwing there hat into in the ring at "normal times" with stand out perfromances but we don't have that and if it was normal times now we still wouldn't have

Just out of curiosity does Ulster ever get get people in to audit were they are going "wrong" and improve our weaknesses?

Could maybe do worse than getting half a dozen renown successful coaches in to evalutate the performace of our clubs and schools programmes to build for the future and hire as development coaches or 9 even one for each county

Our NIQ's need to be worldclass and at the same time develop and push the younger ones along. Faddes and Carter don't fit that bill for me (neither have years and years of experience), faddes too old for a project player and carter would we have been worse of going for lavinni, etzebeth or pieter steph du toit they'll miss more games but they may add some more experience and a general demeanour of don't mess with me youngster when they play and train which they could pass on

I'm hoping thats what the mathewson signing was about bring along doak, finlay, mckee and anyone else woth a look O'donnell/mccauley we certainly have the talent but I think they are being let down with coaching and senior players help.

Mathewson is the sort of player who's been there and seen it before thats the sort of experience we need, keep them on the bench for 60min and bring them on to see the game out. The experienced players shouldn't be starting in the lesser games, they can come on if the younger ones are having a mare but you can't bring them on if you've already subbed them off

Our talent identification and guidance (nutrional, personal develoment, weight training, skills) all seem really far behind some things you can't coach
but they come with time and older more experienced players help drive that it's not all about size but our forwards seem way behind. I know from my school days there's talent in the "country schools" but they don't have it as easy as the belast schools to get recognised. When was the last time there were proper trial matches played? When I was in school there was A's and B's at u18/19 why doesn't a u20 side play ail teams in friendlys, same with u19's could play the championship teams they get experience and the coaching staff gets to see who stands out for the opposition.

Is there any reason the A's or academy and sub academy don't play more friendlies with the English championship sides or top (BUCS) uni sides over there? Young players need more development. We've got universities offering rugby scholarships and an academy and sub academy, would we be any worse off getting them into the BUCS league to play obviously finances would take a hit but would they not get more from it even if we had to play all the games away?

When was the last time we produced a ulster born and bread aggressive forward who looked the business. Hendersons the probable go to but if he was in leinster I'd say he'd be 10-15 kgs heavier. For me it would be ferris, we need combative forwards for the tight 5 who'll hit a line hard at a soft shoulder and are I say it running from depth and suck defenders in to let the players with more flair play or even get front foot ball and the let the lighter more mobile players play off their shoulders looking for offloads and line breaks

We've galring holes and the leinster "imports" are only papering over cracks which are going to appear again until we sort talent ID and development out we'll not be able to properly compete again at the minute we're close but take out marcell how close would we be? If we aren't cutting the mustard to me it's not the players to be blamed especially if there's no one pushing them and they're contracts are handed to them, we need the competition back and the fight for every inch attitiude, sucess breeds success and until we get the complete backroom sorted out for the under age sides we'll struggle. If you look at our senior squad on wikipedia 1 out of the 5 second rows is born in ulster, 2 out of 7 back rows born in ulster too. So 3 out of 12 are born and bread in ulster, are we really that poor at producing players or is our development process really whats wrong, we're even imorting into the academy now. Now obviosuly theres players there who have bought in and really added to our squad but we clearly aren't producing our own players to anywhere near the standard required. Would we be worse off giving more local players exposure and a while longer to try to get a decent string of games together? When those caps have gone to imports who in my opinion aren't at a higher level than what we have or potentially could have had. I've nothing against "imports" from abroad or other provinces but I don't think we're making it hard enough for them to earn a contract quite simply because we aren't developing enough

I also think we're missing out on not having a december u21 tournament in belfast on a wednesday night. Have no AIL during december and try to get all the clubs to field and push the clubs to get their best team out, bus the players down to belfast and let them enjoy the night out if that's what they want, if you can't field merge local teams together let the players have a laugh and get the enjoyment and comraderie back

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HammerTime
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Re: Futureproofing after Marcell

Post by HammerTime » Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:23 pm

Is the academy too small? I can see why they are aiming for the ‘creme de la creme’ but that ain’t working and rugby players are reasonably late developers. Are talented youngsters throwing the head up and Heading to uni on the mainland cos the academy is just too darn hard to get in to?

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MightyRearranger
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Re: Futureproofing after Marcell

Post by MightyRearranger » Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:27 am

Rightly or wrongly I'd be of the opinion that the Academy is working pretty well now. There is obviously one or two problem positions, as is the case in almost any team, but we've more than our fair share or talented youngsters in the squad. The issue is much more that for a much longer time than it's been run we'll, it was run badly before that, leaving us with a lack of experienced heads, which as mentioned we've had to fill from elsewhere. A good replacement for Marcel aside, there's not a huge amount to be done about that other than giving the current systems time to work. Taking Marcel out of the equation, given its age profile I'm expecting the current squad to keep riding an upward curve for a few years yet.

Also, while I know a few people are frustrated at what's gone on, I think Marcel deserves a reasonable amount of credit. He's been regularly putting in MotM performances while this has been going on in the background which I think speaks to his integrity. Can't blame a man for doing what's right by his family. Also think having a couple of decent SA teams in the league could be good for the competition as a whole...

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big mervyn
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Re: Futureproofing after Marcell

Post by big mervyn » Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:05 pm

MightyRearranger wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:27 am
Can't blame a man for doing what's right by his family. Also think having a couple of decent SA teams in the league could be good for the competition as a whole...
If you're going to be that feckin flakey, don't sign a 3 year contract :duh: :banghead:
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Dave
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Re: Futureproofing after Marcell

Post by Dave » Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:24 pm

He wouldn't be doing wrong by his family by seeing through on his committment to play for Ulster next season. He really wouldn't. There is no point signing any overseas players if they are doing wrong by their family in moving far away from them.

I have my own tv channel, what have you got?

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Cap'n Grumpy
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Re: Futureproofing after Marcell

Post by Cap'n Grumpy » Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:23 pm

Nobody's managed to write a precis of Nose's original post yet?

I keep coming back here and hoping, but no luck yet.
Sadly the days of people using proper English are went

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big mervyn
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Re: Futureproofing after Marcell

Post by big mervyn » Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:36 pm

Cap'n Grumpy wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:23 pm
Nobody's managed to write a precis of Nose's original post yet?

I keep coming back here and hoping, but no luck yet.
I'd read thon. Sorry but I never read anything that long. Twatter and ir's character limits has some merit.
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Cap'n Grumpy
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Re: Futureproofing after Marcell

Post by Cap'n Grumpy » Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:50 pm

big mervyn wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:36 pm
Cap'n Grumpy wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:23 pm
Nobody's managed to write a precis of Nose's original post yet?

I keep coming back here and hoping, but no luck yet.
I'd read thon. Sorry but I never read anything that long. Twatter and ir's character limits has some merit.
You're a man of discernment Merv. :thumleft:
Sadly the days of people using proper English are went

jean valjean
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Re: Futureproofing after Marcell

Post by jean valjean » Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:53 pm

So conan, deegan and penny all seem to be out of contract this year and I would doubt the IRFU will allow them all to stay. Who would you have of the 3? I'd take penny first to give more options at 7 on the proviso an overseas 8 is coming. If not then conan over deegan for me.

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justinr73
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Re: Futureproofing after Marcell

Post by justinr73 » Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:47 pm

Yep - he’s 7 years younger than Conan and Deegan has not long had an op on his ACL.

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Re: Futureproofing after Marcell

Post by Bart S » Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:40 pm

The issues at lock in Europe were as a result of having 3 of the 4 frontline options unavailable, although the younger o’connor brother did a pretty decent job stepping in, in fairness.

Backrow is a different issue, Ulster have 3 European standard operators, including the future Bulls player (Jordi and Reidy). I still think Reidy, like Tredwell is a great bench option at that level, rather than necessarily being starter material. To be competitive Ulster really need to replace the Bulls man with 2 backrowers as depth is more critical right now than having someone of his quality. More recently Jones has looked quite decent, at least for. Pro14 level and there are clearly hopes for McCann and Allison. Marcus Rea has looked good in his appearances also, but realistically it is going to take these guys a year or 2 to be able to take over. In the meantime a decent NIQ (not top notch international) plus one of the Leinster lads would be good.
I rate Jones higher than Rea Snr based on what I have seen.

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LegsLikeSausages
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Re: Futureproofing after Marcell

Post by LegsLikeSausages » Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:35 pm

Bart S wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:40 pm
The issues at lock in Europe were as a result of having 3 of the 4 frontline options unavailable, although the younger o’connor brother did a pretty decent job stepping in, in fairness.

Backrow is a different issue, Ulster have 3 European standard operators, including the future Bulls player (Jordi and Reidy). I still think Reidy, like Tredwell is a great bench option at that level, rather than necessarily being starter material. To be competitive Ulster really need to replace the Bulls man with 2 backrowers as depth is more critical right now than having someone of his quality. More recently Jones has looked quite decent, at least for. Pro14 level and there are clearly hopes for McCann and Allison. Marcus Rea has looked good in his appearances also, but realistically it is going to take these guys a year or 2 to be able to take over. In the meantime a decent NIQ (not top notch international) plus one of the Leinster lads would be good.
I rate Jones higher than Rea Snr based on what I have seen.
Agree with that. We need to replace Marcell with 2 players. Ideally a ball carrier and a specialist jackaller. We can’t expect the same sort of quality, so I would also say we need the rest of the pack to step up the physicality a notch and take on more carrying responsibly. Against Munster it looked to me that Timoney had already got the memo.

Bart S
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Re: Futureproofing after Marcell

Post by Bart S » Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:39 pm

D’oh. I had forgotten about Timoney.

Like Jones has done well recently, but not sure he is at the European level.

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Re: Futureproofing after Marcell

Post by rumncoke » Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:47 am

There are two types of Ball carriers -- the first receiver gain line bull head down quick, recycle most teams need about three

The second is the support second receiver who can run the length of the pitch some back rows are the second type and some the first, the problem comes when you expect the second type to play like the first .
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launish116
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Re: Futureproofing after Marcell

Post by launish116 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:13 pm

Jones reminds me a little of Diack, great hands, tackling but struggles with hard yards. Has the frame looks like he could add some timber.

Rea Snr & Jones both offer completely different options.

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