Ulster ‘A’ v Leinster ‘A’ Fri 15th Jan 3pm KO Live on BBC iPlayer and BBC Sport NI website

Talk about the men in white, and everything Ulster!!

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Dave
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Re: Ulster ‘A’ v Leinster ‘A’ Fri 15th Jan 3pm KO Live on BBC iPlayer and BBC Sport NI website

Post by Dave »

HammerTime wrote:I must have been watching a different game cos I thought Doak was awful. Pretty much everybody else had a great game bar him. Certainly not writing him off by any means but That’s 3 games I’ve watched him and I’m yet to see what all the fuss is about.
Yep you must have been.
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Re: Ulster ‘A’ v Leinster ‘A’ Fri 15th Jan 3pm KO Live on BBC iPlayer and BBC Sport NI website

Post by Bobbievee »

On a separate Doak issue, refereeing scrum halves are not a new phenomenon. E.g. Pyrgos at Edinburgh. Unusual though in one so young and maybe betrays an over assessment of his own status. I was surprised that the referee was so lenient on the back chat................ and if he gets a reputation for this, other refs might not be so lenient.
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Re: Ulster ‘A’ v Leinster ‘A’ Fri 15th Jan 3pm KO Live on BBC iPlayer and BBC Sport NI website

Post by rumncoke »

There is a difference between mouthing as a scrum half and trying to tell the referee to blow his whistle .

It can be annoying waste of time .

Re off side — when I was playing years ago if the ball was playable even before scrum half touched it the off side line ceased to exist .

Now one is left to wonder when off side ceases to exist is it when the scrum half touches the ball with his hands the ball or when the ball has left his hands ? Personally I go for touches the ball it would end flat passing
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Re: Ulster ‘A’ v Leinster ‘A’ Fri 15th Jan 3pm KO Live on BBC iPlayer and BBC Sport NI website

Post by WestDr »

There's a point in the second half at a ruck where Doak, plus three Leinster players, all have their arms in the air asking for the ref, who is standing some 5 metres away, to blow the whistle for some offence that they can see. Whilst I expect do not expect a lot from Leinster players, even given Doak is (a) the son of a coach and (b) played schools and u-20 rugby, there is a point where I'd rather that rugby was 'let's play the ball and make something happen' rather than 'let's get a penalty etc etc'. Have no doubt that in a full Ravenhill the crowd would be telling him (as they do Dave Shanahan) to get on with it.

He might be a 'great player' but like Hammertime I fail to see what exactly he does that lights Dave and KoTh's fire. Perhaps we are just mere spectators and not rugby intelligensia ? At present Nathan Doak seems just a gobby scrum half with a high box kick, a dodgy pass and without wee Dave's running lines and John Cooney's eye for a gap. Time will tell wheher he's the new Paul Marshall, Ruan Pienaar or just his Dad.
Last edited by WestDr on Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ulster ‘A’ v Leinster ‘A’ Fri 15th Jan 3pm KO Live on BBC iPlayer and BBC Sport NI website

Post by kingofthehill »

WestDr wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:54 am There's a point in the second half at a ruck where Doak, plus three Leinster players, all have their arms in the air asking for the ref, who is standing some 5 metres away, to blow the whistle for some offence that they can see. Whilst I expect do not expect a lot from Leinster players, even given Doak is (a) the son of a coach and (b) played schools and u-20 rugby, there is a point where I'd rather that rugby was 'let's play the ball and make something happen' rather than 'let's get a penalty etc etc'. Have no doubt that in a full Ravenhill the crowd would be telling him (as they do Dave Shanahan) to get on with it.

He might be a 'great player' but like Hammertime I fail to see what exactly he does that lights Dave and KoTh's fire. Perhaps we are just mere spectators and not rugby intelligensia ? At present Neil Doak seems just a gobby scrum half with a high box kick, a dodgy pass and without wee Dave's running lines and John Cooney's eye for a gap. Time will tell wheher he's the new Paul Marshall, Ruan Pienaar or just his Dad.
As I said in the previous post about him in this thread . He was too slow at getting the ball away from ruck. I have watched him through school/A games and he’s a different level. Mature beyond his years.

McCann’s pass from base of scrum for Sextons first try goes under appreciated.

Moxham and Sexton are clearly good enough but watch out Postlewaite who would of been involved in that game if he hadn’t pulled up with injury. The amount of backs we have coming through is scary.
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Re: Ulster ‘A’ v Leinster ‘A’ Fri 15th Jan 3pm KO Live on BBC iPlayer and BBC Sport NI website

Post by Lurgan Lad »

Agree with Koth, Doak had a lot of patience and awareness of when to speed things up and slow things down, when to go open and blind, when to boss people about when he needed protection for box kicks. The raw tools are there for a 19 year old to be outstanding for us.
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Re: Ulster ‘A’ v Leinster ‘A’ Fri 15th Jan 3pm KO Live on BBC iPlayer and BBC Sport NI website

Post by Hans Indaruck »

Doak will learn in time - he is still raw and needs to adjust to the pace of the game (as witnessed is his very nervy debut for the senior team). But he is by no means out of place and as KOTH says - he is not the only option coming through - so it bodes well.

One player who has not been mentioned who I thought had an excellent game is Hayden Hyde - a strong looking player with a good skillset and a good eye for the game. Whilst we have a good stock of centres they will not be around for ever and we will always need SID - so again some reassurance here.

The best thing about this game was not the skill level on show - but the absence of a TMO!! What a difference it made - the game flowed and overall seemed to be about half an hour quicker to complete! Whilst there are of course times when a TMO is useful it makes you wonder if the cons of having one outweigh the pros!?
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Re: Ulster ‘A’ v Leinster ‘A’ Fri 15th Jan 3pm KO Live on BBC iPlayer and BBC Sport NI website

Post by Big-al »

kingofthehill wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:59 am
WestDr wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:54 am There's a point in the second half at a ruck where Doak, plus three Leinster players, all have their arms in the air asking for the ref, who is standing some 5 metres away, to blow the whistle for some offence that they can see. Whilst I expect do not expect a lot from Leinster players, even given Doak is (a) the son of a coach and (b) played schools and u-20 rugby, there is a point where I'd rather that rugby was 'let's play the ball and make something happen' rather than 'let's get a penalty etc etc'. Have no doubt that in a full Ravenhill the crowd would be telling him (as they do Dave Shanahan) to get on with it.

He might be a 'great player' but like Hammertime I fail to see what exactly he does that lights Dave and KoTh's fire. Perhaps we are just mere spectators and not rugby intelligensia ? At present Neil Doak seems just a gobby scrum half with a high box kick, a dodgy pass and without wee Dave's running lines and John Cooney's eye for a gap. Time will tell wheher he's the new Paul Marshall, Ruan Pienaar or just his Dad.
As I said in the previous post about him in this thread . He was too slow at getting the ball away from ruck. I have watched him through school/A games and he’s a different level. Mature beyond his years.

McCann’s pass from base of scrum for Sextons first try goes under appreciated.

Moxham and Sexton are clearly good enough but watch out Postlewaite who would of been involved in that game if he hadn’t pulled up with injury. The amount of backs we have coming through is scary.
One massive hole at number 10 though, Paddy Jackson would have been in his prime and probably captaining the Ulster squad for the next 5 or 6 years by now.
Whats Postlewaite like? Big like Baloucoune/Stockdale or more like Lyttle/McIlroy?
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Re: Ulster ‘A’ v Leinster ‘A’ Fri 15th Jan 3pm KO Live on BBC iPlayer and BBC Sport NI website

Post by kingofthehill »

Big-al wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:00 pm
kingofthehill wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:59 am
WestDr wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:54 am There's a point in the second half at a ruck where Doak, plus three Leinster players, all have their arms in the air asking for the ref, who is standing some 5 metres away, to blow the whistle for some offence that they can see. Whilst I expect do not expect a lot from Leinster players, even given Doak is (a) the son of a coach and (b) played schools and u-20 rugby, there is a point where I'd rather that rugby was 'let's play the ball and make something happen' rather than 'let's get a penalty etc etc'. Have no doubt that in a full Ravenhill the crowd would be telling him (as they do Dave Shanahan) to get on with it.

He might be a 'great player' but like Hammertime I fail to see what exactly he does that lights Dave and KoTh's fire. Perhaps we are just mere spectators and not rugby intelligensia ? At present Neil Doak seems just a gobby scrum half with a high box kick, a dodgy pass and without wee Dave's running lines and John Cooney's eye for a gap. Time will tell wheher he's the new Paul Marshall, Ruan Pienaar or just his Dad.
As I said in the previous post about him in this thread . He was too slow at getting the ball away from ruck. I have watched him through school/A games and he’s a different level. Mature beyond his years.

McCann’s pass from base of scrum for Sextons first try goes under appreciated.

Moxham and Sexton are clearly good enough but watch out Postlewaite who would of been involved in that game if he hadn’t pulled up with injury. The amount of backs we have coming through is scary.
One massive hole at number 10 though, Paddy Jackson would have been in his prime and probably captaining the Ulster squad for the next 5 or 6 years by now.
Whats Postlewaite like? Big like Baloucoune/Stockdale or more like Lyttle/McIlroy?
He’s big,strong,aggressive and has skills. Could play in backrow,centre or back 3. Wouldn’t have the out and out pace of the others.
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Re: Ulster ‘A’ v Leinster ‘A’ Fri 15th Jan 3pm KO Live on BBC iPlayer and BBC Sport NI website

Post by Dave »


WestDr wrote:There's a point in the second half at a ruck where Doak, plus three Leinster players, all have their arms in the air asking for the ref, who is standing some 5 metres away, to blow the whistle for some offence that they can see. Whilst I expect do not expect a lot from Leinster players, even given Doak is (a) the son of a coach and (b) played schools and u-20 rugby, there is a point where I'd rather that rugby was 'let's play the ball and make something happen' rather than 'let's get a penalty etc etc'. Have no doubt that in a full Ravenhill the crowd would be telling him (as they do Dave Shanahan) to get on with it.

He might be a 'great player' but like Hammertime I fail to see what exactly he does that lights Dave and KoTh's fire. Perhaps we are just mere spectators and not rugby intelligensia ? At present Neil Doak seems just a gobby scrum half with a high box kick, a dodgy pass and without wee Dave's running lines and John Cooney's eye for a gap. Time will tell wheher he's the new Paul Marshall, Ruan Pienaar or just his Dad.
That was the first full game I have seen him play. Or at least start. KOTH appears to have watched him through the school years. I stated I was impressed with him which I was. The main the job for a 9 is to pass the ball from the ruck to the receiving player. He did this well. That is one of the main basics of playing scrum half. There are many Ulster prospects over the years unable to manage this. However, it's only one game but none the less I was impressed. There seems to be a lot of nitpicking with the guy already obviously because of who his dad is. Something no doubt he will have to put up with.
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Re: Ulster ‘A’ v Leinster ‘A’ Fri 15th Jan 3pm KO Live on BBC iPlayer and BBC Sport NI website

Post by RuPi »

Big-al wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:00 pm
kingofthehill wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:59 am
WestDr wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:54 am There's a point in the second half at a ruck where Doak, plus three Leinster players, all have their arms in the air asking for the ref, who is standing some 5 metres away, to blow the whistle for some offence that they can see. Whilst I expect do not expect a lot from Leinster players, even given Doak is (a) the son of a coach and (b) played schools and u-20 rugby, there is a point where I'd rather that rugby was 'let's play the ball and make something happen' rather than 'let's get a penalty etc etc'. Have no doubt that in a full Ravenhill the crowd would be telling him (as they do Dave Shanahan) to get on with it.

He might be a 'great player' but like Hammertime I fail to see what exactly he does that lights Dave and KoTh's fire. Perhaps we are just mere spectators and not rugby intelligensia ? At present Neil Doak seems just a gobby scrum half with a high box kick, a dodgy pass and without wee Dave's running lines and John Cooney's eye for a gap. Time will tell wheher he's the new Paul Marshall, Ruan Pienaar or just his Dad.
As I said in the previous post about him in this thread . He was too slow at getting the ball away from ruck. I have watched him through school/A games and he’s a different level. Mature beyond his years.

McCann’s pass from base of scrum for Sextons first try goes under appreciated.

Moxham and Sexton are clearly good enough but watch out Postlewaite who would of been involved in that game if he hadn’t pulled up with injury. The amount of backs we have coming through is scary.
One massive hole at number 10 though, Paddy Jackson would have been in his prime and probably captaining the Ulster squad for the next 5 or 6 years by now.
Whats Postlewaite like? Big like Baloucoune/Stockdale or more like Lyttle/McIlroy?
Would be more of the build of Stockdale, probably hasn’t Jacob’s pace but a lot more physical, cannon of a left boot, I would see him most likely as a 13 or 15. Gets through the tackle well and offloads.
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Re: Ulster ‘A’ v Leinster ‘A’ Fri 15th Jan 3pm KO Live on BBC iPlayer and BBC Sport NI website

Post by launish116 »

Hans Indaruck wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:46 pm One player who has not been mentioned who I thought had an excellent game is Hayden Hyde - a strong looking player with a good skillset and a good eye for the game. Whilst we have a good stock of centres they will not be around for ever and we will always need SID - so again some reassurance here.
Have seen Hyde play before, he was very good! Just opens defences up and lets the backs show some magic! Will we see him with seniors before the end of the season? With Marshall & Addison injured. Or is Moxham considered the next 13?

Was impressed with Carson as well, though never seen him before. Both had a good showing!

Before the match I’d of defended Faddes renewal under the current financial circumstances even for one year.but really can’t justify it now. Academy is seriously going to be raided shortly, we can keep pillaging Leinster and not expect the same.
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Re: Ulster ‘A’ v Leinster ‘A’ Fri 15th Jan 3pm KO Live on BBC iPlayer and BBC Sport NI website

Post by kingofthehill »

launish116 wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:24 pm
Hans Indaruck wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:46 pm One player who has not been mentioned who I thought had an excellent game is Hayden Hyde - a strong looking player with a good skillset and a good eye for the game. Whilst we have a good stock of centres they will not be around for ever and we will always need SID - so again some reassurance here.
Have seen Hyde play before, he was very good! Just opens defences up and lets the backs show some magic! Will we see him with seniors before the end of the season? With Marshall & Addison injured. Or is Moxham considered the next 13?

Was impressed with Carson as well, though never seen him before. Both had a good showing!

Before the match I’d of defended Faddes renewal under the current financial circumstances even for one year.but really can’t justify it now. Academy is seriously going to be raided shortly, we can keep pillaging Leinster and not expect the same.
Thought Carson looked out of his depth. Good at school because he was bigger than most but think he will struggle at senior level.
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Re: Ulster ‘A’ v Leinster ‘A’ Fri 15th Jan 3pm KO Live on BBC iPlayer and BBC Sport NI website

Post by rumncoke »

With the back line we have and the number of options my advice to a player if he was of the proper size would be to change to back row especially if lacking a little pace Ulster need a pacy back row player to make the gain line weight is fine except when it meets a similar mass moving faster.
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Re: Ulster ‘A’ v Leinster ‘A’ Fri 15th Jan 3pm KO Live on BBC iPlayer and BBC Sport NI website

Post by WestDr »

Thank you to KoTH, Dave and Hans Indaruck (amongst others) for the considered replies.

From what I read, he's demonstrated all through the age groups that he has good judgement, application and learning ability, to go with his size advantage. It does seem to be the trend that scrum halves are bigger these days - remember how enormous Mike Phillips once seemed compared to his contempories ?

As I think all will agree, age-group rugby is great as far as it goes, with the disadvantage of the naturally limited size of the selection pool and thus competion both within and across Ireland (and beyond). The big step is, of course, up to A and then full 1st XV where the pool of competitors is both much bigger and generally more experienced - the latter clearly does make a significant difference. And this is where I'd suggest that AIL/club rugby fits into progression; it didn't harm Robert Balacoune to be with Enniskillen RFC rather than the school/academy route. It sounds, from better judges than me, that Nathan Doak has got some/all of the characteristics required to make that leap - as usual it'll be about (a) opportunities, (b) coaching and (c) critically his ability to make the most of both. Is he playing club/AIL rugby for anyone (if they were playing) ? I'd also suggest that he needs to refereed by more assertive and experienced refs - particularly around asking for decisions and the general running commentary that now seems to pervade the game.

Not entirely sure about the hair-cut though. Even Wee Mads dropped his version of the Young Offenders look after a week !
Last edited by WestDr on Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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