Rainbow Cup

Talk about the men in white, and everything Ulster!!

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solidarity
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Re: Rainbow Cup

Post by solidarity » Sun May 09, 2021 4:10 pm

Jetstream wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 10:32 am
Bobbievee wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 11:14 pm
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/57038362

Mcwhirter lays it on the line. Ulster are finished??!!
Not exactly rocket science from McWhirter and Henry. These two guys along with Ferris are great at the criticism. Could they do anything to help rather than mouthing off?
True enough, but, just because it's bland doesn't mean it isn't true. I think the very simple, very bland, rather sad truth is that we just don't have enough real quality players. We have enough decent quality to do well in the Pro14 (the Saffers coming in might be a different prospect) possibly even in the Bic Biro, but that's it. We simply don't have what it takes in the player pool to be at the top table.

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Dave
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Re: Rainbow Cup

Post by Dave » Sun May 09, 2021 4:17 pm

thecrouch wrote:I don't know where we go from here. We seem to be a team that is always talking about the next season.

What have we to look forward to next season? Nakarawa? I don't want to be negative but he's not going to transform us. It's going to be another season just like this one.

Leinster will take us to the cleaners next week.
Has Nakarawa played since he was taken off at halftime against Leinster? After the game Danny Wilson told him he needed to get fit. He turned up late to preseason for them. He was sacked by Racing for "a total lack of team spirit and marked insubordination" after showing up late after the World Cup.
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Re: Rainbow Cup

Post by TopPoster » Sun May 09, 2021 4:19 pm

thecrouch wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 3:38 pm
I don't know where we go from here. We seem to be a team that is always talking about the next season.

What have we to look forward to next season? Nakarawa? I don't want to be negative but he's not going to transform us. It's going to be another season just like this one.

Leinster will take us to the cleaners next week.
Which makes the 2nd half capitulation against Leicester even more frustrating - that was the only chance for silverware for years to come unless there’s another crack at the challenge cup somehow.

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Re: Rainbow Cup

Post by big mervyn » Sun May 09, 2021 4:43 pm

The 3 losses in Europe were the collective low point of this season and will haunt the team for a while. Could have/should have won all of them but conspired to lose them. Pro 12 effort excellent and frankly who cares about the Rainbow? Hopefully a lot of the young squad will benefit and learn from the experience this year.
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Re: Rainbow Cup

Post by Snipe Watson » Sun May 09, 2021 5:13 pm

Bobbievee wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 11:14 pm
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/57038362

Mcwhirter lays it on the line. Ulster are finished??!!
Meaningless games once we were out of the challenge cup. Munster clearly had a different attitude which is fair enough.

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Re: Rainbow Cup

Post by jean valjean » Sun May 09, 2021 5:29 pm

I think if there were fans at ravenhill for the toulouse game we probably would have won it, if you consider they would likely have been <10% and us +10%. The leinster game would have been much closer as I don't think we would have given up the lead as easily nor would the tmo/ officials be so determined on the cards. The team are suffering a bit at the minute and really need some support come the new season.

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Re: Rainbow Cup

Post by HammerTime » Sun May 09, 2021 7:50 pm

One of the major problems is that the NIQ's are a step down in standard whereas traditionally they would have been a major step up. Carter is average and never fit, Faddes is a shirt and nothing more and Mathewson, (who has been reasonable) let us down spectacularly when it was needed v Leicester. Get rid of them all and put the money into two or even one top class hard nosed forward. Ulster have never needed backs just put the money into the pack. I was close to being a great season but has been an utter disappointment when it really mattered. The usual story. There is no mental resilience at all when the going gets tough. A proper leader in the pack would help. Ive also been pretty disappointed with the youngsters. They've looked good v average/good teams but v The Leinsters and Munsters they've collectively went into hiding.

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Re: Rainbow Cup

Post by Hans Indaruck » Sun May 09, 2021 8:40 pm

jean valjean wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 5:29 pm
I think if there were fans at ravenhill for the toulouse game we probably would have won it, if you consider they would likely have been <10% and us +10%. The leinster game would have been much closer as I don't think we would have given up the lead as easily nor would the tmo/ officials be so determined on the cards. The team are suffering a bit at the minute and really need some support come the new season.

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I and several hundred other Ulster fans were at Ravenhill for the Toulouse match! Unfortunately one Cheslin Kolbe was also at the match and had more to do with our downfall than any lack of local support!!
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Re: Rainbow Cup

Post by Big-al » Sun May 09, 2021 10:11 pm

Ulster lack a lot of power up front.

EOS s having a poor season, the 2 THs don't seem to be improving. Herring is quality but isn't the big ball carrier we need. He would be perfect in the leinster pack, whilst Kelleher would be perfect up at Ulster. Henderson partner is just very average, whoever he may be.

Murphy and Reidy are showing their age in 2021, whilst Timoney would be lucky to be a squad player in Leinster or Munster. Rea Snr would be in the AIL.

McCloskey is having his worst ever season, looks slow and lazy. Burn is a nothing player, back 3 and Hume have done alright IMO.

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Re: Rainbow Cup

Post by jean valjean » Sun May 09, 2021 10:21 pm

Hans Indaruck wrote:
jean valjean wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 5:29 pm
I think if there were fans at ravenhill for the toulouse game we probably would have won it, if you consider they would likely have been <10% and us +10%. The leinster game would have been much closer as I don't think we would have given up the lead as easily nor would the tmo/ officials be so determined on the cards. The team are suffering a bit at the minute and really need some support come the new season.

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I and several hundred other Ulster fans were at Ravenhill for the Toulouse match! Unfortunately one Cheslin Kolbe was also at the match and had more to do with our downfall than any lack of local support!!
I was there as well but a few hundred as opposed to 17k is a big difference. Players are human and there is reason why crowds influence games, hence why ulster's home record in Europe over the years is good. Ulster need the fans back for many reasons one of which is to help influence tight games.

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Re: Rainbow Cup

Post by Dave » Sun May 09, 2021 10:46 pm


HammerTime wrote:One of the major problems is that the NIQ's are a step down in standard whereas traditionally they would have been a major step up. Carter is average and never fit, Faddes is a shirt and nothing more and Mathewson, (who has been reasonable) let us down spectacularly when it was needed v Leicester. Get rid of them all and put the money into two or even one top class hard nosed forward. Ulster have never needed backs just put the money into the pack. I was close to being a great season but has been an utter disappointment when it really mattered. The usual story. There is no mental resilience at all when the going gets tough. A proper leader in the pack would help. Ive also been pretty disappointed with the youngsters. They've looked good v average/good teams but v The Leinsters and Munsters they've collectively went into hiding.
We need at least two. One would only get injured. If Marcell had been fit we would have beaten Leicester. Alby could have fed him the ball in that second half with net gain. We couldn't replace his metres and carries.
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Re: Rainbow Cup

Post by Bobbievee » Sun May 09, 2021 11:47 pm

HammerTime wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 7:50 pm
One of the major problems is that the NIQ's are a step down in standard whereas traditionally they would have been a major step up. Carter is average and never fit, Faddes is a shirt and nothing more and Mathewson, (who has been reasonable) let us down spectacularly when it was needed v Leicester. Get rid of them all and put the money into two or even one top class hard nosed forward. Ulster have never needed backs just put the money into the pack. I was close to being a great season but has been an utter disappointment when it really mattered. The usual story. There is no mental resilience at all when the going gets tough. A proper leader in the pack would help. Ive also been pretty disappointed with the youngsters. They've looked good v average/good teams but v The Leinsters and Munsters they've collectively went into hiding.
I agree. Very few sides in any sport have gone from average ( is us) to first class in one giant bound. The few occasions that we have been close we have had temporarily had access to world class NIQs...Pienaar, coetzee, Piatau ( incidentally Charlie leading off loading stats in English Premier).
As I understand it we (UR) have one of the largest fan bases and income from STs. Why are we not competitive in the marketplace for world class NIQs ie not mediocre people looking to see earn a few shillings in their final playing years.

I have tried and failed to make sense of non transparent UR annual financial reports. Are our overheads higher? Our ground costs higher? Our Irfu subsidy too low?
our tickets too cheap? Our salaries to mediocre players too high?

Regrettably like most sports ,money now lies at the root of the problem. Ravenhill Friday nights, fight every inch , attitude etc are emotional liferafts, but skills and class .........and therefore cash ..........are another.

Answers on a postcard please
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Re: Rainbow Cup

Post by Dharper » Mon May 10, 2021 12:14 am

Exactly Dave!
MC would’ve done the tight carries over the gainline, meaning no kick away needed.
People need to face up to financial realities: If the rumour is true is 80% provinces revenue from IRFU, no crowds at Ravers, and little private sponsorship compared to Leinster/Munster then “saved revenue” on leaving players for reinvestment.....doesn’t exist!! The pot is empty gents.
The rumour is
Leo was a financial bargain based on age, and his less than recent professional attitude - it’s a low risk, and likely the only one we could afford and Dan fancies getting the best out of him. Pedrie & Big Nick has issues but were brilliant, I’m happy to give Leo the benefit.

Big Al - someone needs to take you for a pint.

EOS is blowing out of his hole, McGrath has been injured nigh on all season and EOS has been overplayed.
Moore isn’t going to improve, he’s 30ish, very solid but that’s it. The improvement is from TOT a bit of patience needed - you rarely see the best of a TH in his early 20s.

The 2nd rows are ave. very decent pro14, May even do a decent job in Euro but not consistently against top sides, and not together. Carter?.....I doubt he’s put 5 games together on the bounce to properly judge him. No way he’s been injury free/match fit for more than 2/3 games.

I agree re the backrow - jordi Reidy are getting older and are similar in style. Timoney isn’t a starter ideally for me. That’s why we need McCann/Rea Jr & Leo to work.

Mccloskey looks slow & lazy?.....this guy for 3 yrs has been the ONLY guaranteed gainline success for UR without/apart from MC. With a very limited pack DMcF cannot afford NOT to play him. Guess what the opposition know and plan for that too. UR cannot afford unfortunately to rotate him as much as needed.

SID SID SID.....in the pack. We need far more luck with injuries and the pups coming through - it starts and ends up front. The backs will take care of themselves.

Agreed the crowd at Ravers is a huge factor. Sooner back the better.
Honestly I think there may need to be a training ground fight, pups need to step up, and experienced players may need to be called out. Mental fragility is an issue, because everyone knows they are short of quality & depth.

Bobbie good post:
We drunk money up the wall with bad cheap signings. CP was a ridiculous extravagance when the pack clearly needed new investment. We do not have the budget of Munster/Leinster......we are not a “marquee club” for a foreign player, and frankly let’s be honest.......450k (big signing) in Belfast?....550k south of France?.....most aren’t landing in George Best. To be fair, there are talented players in Dublin happy to be wearing a smart blue suit sitting on the Brennan watching a Euro game, than come up the road and play for UR in the Euro cup, as it makes zero difference to their Ire chances....so I don’t think anyone can be blamed.

For me everything is riding on the pack next yr. IF people stay fit, Leo does a job, and Reid can back up EOS and we get a decent BR option from the pups we’ll be decent - if not, we’re screwed.

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Re: Rainbow Cup

Post by rumncoke » Mon May 10, 2021 9:38 am

CapT

Law ( foul play ) sub 7 c

A law unknown by any arm flapping scrum half and neglected by all referees.

with the speed of the game there are certain things which may be missed by referees and assistantsin a lead up to a try and camera angles and position may not make not make the infringement visible to a TMO during play If the infringement is during a lead to a score -- then in fairness it is right that the lead up to the try should be reviewed.

But I question the use of a challenge to obtain a man and maybe even a penalty advantage a successfully challenge should be scrum restart
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Re: Rainbow Cup

Post by Dave » Mon May 10, 2021 9:50 am

I will be very surprised if we do not end up in the bic biro again. The gap between French teams will be even higher. The English teams will pull further ahead also, with a reduction in our budget. Leinster will remain as strong as ever. Munster will be stronger than this season, with Snyman back and their new big SA bruiser. There will be some very good Saffer sides to duff us as well.

Although, I'll be glad to get back to ravers to witness it all

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