Connacht v Ulster Sat Oct 23rd 5:15pm KO

[Bobbievee]

It’s also worth noting that Addison was a big miss.

We seemed to lack invention and ideas (amongst other things) and that absence of a second playmaker (no doubt someone will ask if I mean a first playmaker) was an issue that we need to get over.

Not sure what’s up with Mads but we could well see him and Cooney back for our next trip to Dublin.

Season ticket holders can get tickets today - don’t all rush at once!

WestDr

agree with every word. Connaught had Doak and Burns worked out, by a combination of foul play, continually being on the verge of offside, and well timed rush defence and awareness were able to get up amongst the Ulster backs to the extent of poaching the passes. Amazingly without the two interceptions tries ( and the 14 points), the score would have been flatteringly close................because there is no doubt that Connaught were better in every aspect of the game.

And no one in the UR backs seemed to notice that this was happening, or if they did, chose to ignore it. Centres revving man and ball at the same time ( and sometimes no ball!) . No variation, no dink over the top, no nothing.

Im trying to avoid cliches, but cliches are cliches because they are true so often ,ie " men against boys" . 16/17 stone UR forwards being bossed around like long grass in the breeze. Embarrassing.

Like others , I don't see any quick fix here, so settle in for a long term loyal support of a poor/medium performing team.

And from Doaks first match, his slowness, and temptation to engage the referee in conversation, has been a weakness ........and needs immediate attention. Can you imagine Nigel O refereeing him ( or as said before on these pages, our own SIR Nigel!!)

And yeah, Mads . What is happening?

[WestDr]

It’s also worth noting that Addison was a big miss.

We seemed to lack invention and ideas (amongst other things) and that absence of a second playmaker (no doubt someone will ask if I mean a first playmaker) was an issue that we need to get over.

Not sure what’s up with Mads but we could well see him and Cooney back for our next trip to Dublin.

Yes, agree entirely. To pick up two points from your post:

1. Second play-maker - that's what I thought Lowry might do from full-back on Saturday (when Gilroy went off it was the sensible move to immediately shift McIlroy to wing), but it either seemed not to be tried or not to work.... was that because Burns was stuck in Plan A, doesn't know how to play/trust Lowry whereas he's fine with Addison in that role or Lowry can only do the playmaking job when playing at 10 ?

2. Madigan - we do miss him (not least for his belief and experience with a range of kicks from 10), and I fully expect our line-up/bench in that area to be Burns/Lowry or Madigan/Lowry, and not Burns/Madigan, unless Lowry is injured. Indeed, with a fit and firing Madigan, I could see Burns not getting in the 23. In fact, Burns is actually a little limited (play 10) compared to Lowry (play 10/15 and can kick), Madigan (10/12/15/kick), Cooney (9/kick) and Doak (9/kick). Who to start though ?

What I find frustrating about Lowry is that at present he appears to be a polar opposite to Burns: Lowry looks (to me) to be over-keen to take it all on his shoulders to weave his way through the 9/10 or 10/12 channel himself (and then gets tackled, turned over or done for holding on etc) whereas Burns just ships it on committing nobody and perhaps once in every two or three games takes on that 9/10 or 10/12 channel with the ball. Both players make an opposition coach's job quite easy really. It is a team game Michael, no need to do it all yourself ! What it does mean however that, like Paddy at LI and Sexton, you'll take more than a few late hits.

[germcevoy]

It’s also worth noting that Addison was a big miss.

We seemed to lack invention and ideas (amongst other things) and that absence of a second playmaker (no doubt someone will ask if I mean a first playmaker) was an issue that we need to get over.

Not sure what’s up with Mads but we could well see him and Cooney back for our next trip to Dublin.

Season ticket holders can get tickets today - don’t all rush at once!

WestDr

agree with every word. Connaught had Doak and Burns worked out, by a combination of foul play, continually being on the verge of offside, and well timed rush defence and awareness were able to get up amongst the Ulster backs to the extent of poaching the passes. Amazingly without the two interceptions tries ( and the 14 points), the score would have been flatteringly close................because there is no doubt that Connaught were better in every aspect of the game.

And no one in the UR backs seemed to notice that this was happening, or if they did, chose to ignore it. Centres revving man and ball at the same time ( and sometimes no ball!) . No variation, no dink over the top, no nothing.

Im trying to avoid cliches, but cliches are cliches because they are true so often ,ie " men against boys" . 16/17 stone UR forwards being bossed around like long grass in the breeze. Embarrassing.

Like others , I don't see any quick fix here, so settle in for a long term loyal support of a poor/medium performing team.

And from Doaks first match, his slowness, and temptation to engage the referee in conversation, has been a weakness ........and needs immediate attention. Can you imagine Nigel O refereeing him ( or as said before on these pages, our own SIR Nigel!!)

And yeah, Mads . What is happening?

Good observation regarding Doak. He was chatting to the referee as if he was a veteran captain. He’s still a pup and needs to keep his head on what he can control. His babbling to the ref irked me quite a bit. Might it all be going to his head already?

[Snipe Watson]

Good observation regarding Doak. He was chatting to the referee as if he was a veteran captain. He’s still a pup and needs to keep his head on what he can control. His babbling to the ref irked me quite a bit. Might it all be going to his head already?

It irked the ref too and he was warned. I wouldn't be too hard on him unless he becomes a serial offender.

[WestDr]

Good observation regarding Doak. He was chatting to the referee as if he was a veteran captain. He’s still a pup and needs to keep his head on what he can control. His babbling to the ref irked me quite a bit. Might it all be going to his head already?

As Bobbievee said, he's been doing it all four matches this season, so not sure it's going to his head. I'd suggest (a) he'd never actually played against a good no. 9 backed up by a dominant back-row before so (b) discovered, like a lot of talented young players in that situation, that what used to work wasn't. As an experienced (hockey at a reasonable level) umpire I've seen it a lot and their first reaction when it's not going like it always used to (at u-18/u-20 level) is to think that if they've lost the ball then an offence must have been committed with them as the victim. And the second one is to tell the umpire/ref their view. With the third part can be to lose it with the umpire when he/she ignores them as it's the player themself who's been found out.

I'd further suggest that it's a very easy one for Dan McF to fix.... if Nathan Doak wants to fix it. He'll always be a bit of talker as it seems to fuel his game a bit (no bad thing in moderation), but what isn't so easy is the tendency when tired to take a step before passing. Both Nathan Doak and Dave Sh do it when they're a little puffed, or they run with it. That step takes two crucial seconds out of the pass... Watch Ruan P (in his pomp) or Antoine Dupont and see how very rarely they do it. Without doubt, Doak has the ability to be Ireland's no. 1 no. 9 in about 2/3 years. Just needs the right coaching applied now to his own considerable rugby talents.......

[justinr73]

Doak is probably a bit over-confident after being the best player in his team for about ten years and Lowry, at the moment, does seem to lack a bit of composure and vision (his headgear provokes an unflattering comparison with a horse wearing blinkers).

The most frustrating thing for me on Saturday was turning down an easy shot at goal in the first half only for Burns to shin it out at right-angles and then to choose to kick a pen from much further out and miss it.

The game was a disaster all round really.

Interesting that Jackman and Kinsella both fancied Connacht although they can’t claim much credit because they both said it would be close!

[solidarity]

I was at a wedding in England on Saturday and duly kept clear of the papers, radio, tv etc until I got home on Sunday night so that I could watch the match wthout knowing the result. I've found the last few pages of discussion here more uplifting that the hour and more watching the match. I agree with a lot of what has been said, espicially: playing by numbers, with no plan B; Doak being over-confident; lack of jackalling; outhalves who are one-trick ponies; lack of leadership; lack of 'dog'. Looking at the list of games over the next couple of months, we could lose more than we win, a lot more!

[Snipe Watson]

Doak is 19 and on a steep learning curve. Expectations need to be realistic.

[UlsterAreBrill]

Scrum half getting in the refs ear shocker

Come on

[Snipe Watson]

Scrum half getting in the refs ear shocker

Come on

He'll learn that there's a time and a place for bending the ref's ear.

[Dave]

Ffs, Doak isn't the problem. His ability to clear the ball from our own 22 to the find touch on half way possibly saved a more horrific score line. It's a sublime skill. Cooney can't do it, Burns can't even make touch, Madigan can do it with some slices along the way, Stockdale has tried it, Shanahan good luck, also Addison etc... It's hard to believe people are moaning about aspects of his game after 4 professional games. He's a bright talent and I will watch his career with great interest.

Burns is dung. The first was even an intercept. He looked up and saw Hansen. Then tried to pass over the head of a 6'3 guy. It's criminal play in an already tough fixture. I don't want to see him play for Ulster again.

[Cap'n Grumpy]

Burns is dung. . . . I don't want to see him play for Ulster again.

Could get crowded behind that sofa ...

[Soda]

not quite sure how the inquest has turned into an anti Doak rant
Yes he he was having ago at the ref and yes he shouldn't have but let's not forget that the ref was utterly abysmal and Doak is likely to be our best player in the next decade


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[Big-al]

The 3 positions of major concern for me are

A competent flybalf. Burns is kak.

A quality partner for Henderson for top table clashes and Europe. We currently have no-one near good enough to compete with top class packs

A quality blindside flanker. I think McCann is our long term answer here and would like to see him play there next to vermeulan. Rea is playing like an athletic AIL player. Murphy and Reidy too small/old. Jones not good enough.

[Soda]

And tighthead

With Marty* out, Kane is our bench tighthead. God love him but he's just not up to it


*gives hope to fat fecks eveywhere, if he can be a professional athete then so can I

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