Kelly's new attacking defensive mantra is apparently based on New Zealand's approach to playing the British and Irish Lions. As Ulster's play was reminescent of the Lions in New Zealand, with ball being turned over willy nilly and rucks not having enough players committed to them and so on, Kelly should have no problem devising a system like NZ's to beat it. But will Ulster's senior players having slowly adapted to a Lions type defence last season be able to do an about turn and play a radically different 'attacking' defence this year.
Presumbably Kelly's new defensive system based on attacking defence is something like as illustrated by the Boks on Saturday last when they turned over Australia who were on the attack and Berger passed out of the tackle under his own posts with Habana scored from 80 metres out. Some of our senior players can't even pass, let alone pass out of the tackle. Clearly the new defensive system didn't work last Friday.
I noticed that London Irish's tactic was to chip the wingers and i think they scored two of their 3 tries from this tactic. In the first half Tyrone Howe looked all at sea not knowing whether to commit himself to the tackle or stand off, he ended up in no man's land not surprisingly and a defensive fool. Likewise as Rooster already remarked, Cunningham had his worst game in ages. It's not surpirsing when yet another new defensive system has been installed after the players struggled to come to terms with last seasons they are now being asked to implement a new one.
Very pertinent this as the emphasis in pre season so far has been to blood players at the expense it would seem of learning a new defensive system.
Basically rather like last season this system will have to be learnt on the hoof during competitive games starting with Cardiff away. Oh la la. A reprise of last season's early struggles could be on the cards.
Neil Kelly's Defensive attack!!
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Cockatrice
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The problem at the start of last year was the apparent change and getting used to a new defensive system. Now at the start of this year it would appear that we are to impliment another new defensive system one in which the players are clearly still getting used to.
I assume that this pattern of play is another Irish decision and that the other provinces like Ulster are finding their feet with the change as well.
Then seemingly in the middle of the pre-season friendlies Ulster learn that their internationals will be required for the Irish training camp and that they may now be without key players for the start of the league.
Can it be that they only knew after the first match as Ulster would have been far better served playing both friendlies with the team that is likely to commence the league campaign.
It doesn't matter how many points we rack up against Rotherham although one would not expect our line to be crossed on more than one occasion.
I assume that this pattern of play is another Irish decision and that the other provinces like Ulster are finding their feet with the change as well.
Then seemingly in the middle of the pre-season friendlies Ulster learn that their internationals will be required for the Irish training camp and that they may now be without key players for the start of the league.
Can it be that they only knew after the first match as Ulster would have been far better served playing both friendlies with the team that is likely to commence the league campaign.
It doesn't matter how many points we rack up against Rotherham although one would not expect our line to be crossed on more than one occasion.
Currently studying Stage 5 (level3) at IRFU
I find it all very depressing. It looks like as CT points out that this Irish thing has come from nowwhere which does not exactly give players and management a chance to get things right before the league campaign. Maybe four year Eddie is flexing his musles in case people think he has gone away. It seems strange that this has come as a surprise to the Ulster management. It is also a very disappointing start to the CL campaign whenever your star players are unavailable and makes you wonder if the IRFU is taking the CL seriously despite their protestations with the Welsh after their financially inspired antics.
We will see how it goes but this increases the argument that there is too much rugby during the close season with tours to here there and everywhere. While they are money spinning into the bigger coffers theyare not doing the domestic game much good and sooner or later clubs will feel the pinch in poor attendances. And ultimately the cold chill of financial hardship will be felt not so much here due to the close affiliations with the IRFU but in Wales where there is no such cash cow to bail out a struggling club.
Big expensive stadiums that are difficult to pay for and stadiums that cannot get planning permission.
Colin
We will see how it goes but this increases the argument that there is too much rugby during the close season with tours to here there and everywhere. While they are money spinning into the bigger coffers theyare not doing the domestic game much good and sooner or later clubs will feel the pinch in poor attendances. And ultimately the cold chill of financial hardship will be felt not so much here due to the close affiliations with the IRFU but in Wales where there is no such cash cow to bail out a struggling club.
Big expensive stadiums that are difficult to pay for and stadiums that cannot get planning permission.
Colin
Romeo47 Alpha 52
I don't think the Irish training camp thing has come from nowhere, it has just been misrepresented....
All the players who were on the tour in Japan have been required to have a 7 week re-conditioning period after their return before they are released to play for their Provincial teams. As far as I can remember that was the story at the end of the tour. For most of the provinces that means they would not be available for the pre-season friendlies but would be ready for the first week-end of the CL proper.
Because Ulster have a free week on the first week of the CL McCall got permission to play his internationals in one of the friendlies - he chose London Irish as this was the tougher test.
Now whether it is right to only release the players for duty on the first week-end of competitive rugby is a point worth arguing. But I think this 7 week absence has been known about all-along but has only recently been talked about in terms of a 7-week conditioning camp/period.
All the players who were on the tour in Japan have been required to have a 7 week re-conditioning period after their return before they are released to play for their Provincial teams. As far as I can remember that was the story at the end of the tour. For most of the provinces that means they would not be available for the pre-season friendlies but would be ready for the first week-end of the CL proper.
Because Ulster have a free week on the first week of the CL McCall got permission to play his internationals in one of the friendlies - he chose London Irish as this was the tougher test.
Now whether it is right to only release the players for duty on the first week-end of competitive rugby is a point worth arguing. But I think this 7 week absence has been known about all-along but has only recently been talked about in terms of a 7-week conditioning camp/period.
Paul.
C'mon Ulsterrrrrrrrr!
C'mon Ulsterrrrrrrrr!
Thanks for that Paul ..... although there is still a bit of uncertainty if it is part of a lay off or part of pre season training as can be seen from this from the BBC:
ColinCoach Mark McCall is without his Ireland squad players who are taking part in pre-season conditioning.
This means Tommy Bowe, Kevin Maggs, Matt McCullough, Simon Best, Kieran Campbell and Roger Wilson are all missing while David Humphreys is ruled out through injury.
Barring injury, all players should be available for the Celtic League opener against Cardiff on 9 September.
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ding dong2u
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I still think thats someone has got it badly wrong be it Eddie or UR. We should have been playing a full strength team for at least part of this game so that they could have some time on the pitch together before our first competitive outing. As for Kelly's new system......jury's still out after last week's performance
Stand Up for the Ulster Men
RIP Nevin Spence 1990 - 2012
RIP Nevin Spence 1990 - 2012
I totally agree with this point gaz - I just think it shouldn't be portrayed as a surprise to McCall etc. that we can't.ding dong2u wrote:IWe should have been playing a full strength team for at least part of this game so that they could have some time on the pitch together before our first competitive outing.
Paul.
C'mon Ulsterrrrrrrrr!
C'mon Ulsterrrrrrrrr!
Come on guys, can no-one be a bit more positive at the beginning of a season? Almost all I've seen, either here or on the Ulster forum, has been negative, critical, pessimistic and, frankly, I'm getting a bit cheesed off with it. I don't know if some or all of the players read the fora but, if so, they won't be getting too inspired. I think some of them have even been criticised before they've played at all, never mind a full game. Surely we, as committed, fervent supporters, should be doing our best to get behind the squad and show them that we really support them and all of the undoubted hard work they've been doing for the last couple of months while we've been off sunning ourselves and drinking copious amounts of wine (well, I have anyway). I missed last Friday but I'm looking forward to tomorrow and seeing our boys dealing out a hammering to the poor souls who have to play for Andre B*st*r*.
Cheers,
Rocky
Cheers,
Rocky
Bo***cks to Brexit
rocky,
I think there have been quite a lot of positive vibes on this board.
The performance of the Pack in the first half, Trimble and Harrison, etc.
There have also been the inevitable results of a huge surge of disappointment from the performance last week. Most of us were hoping to kick the season off with a win to help put the tribulations of last year behind us, but it was not to be.
We are all here because we are supporters of UR and we all want to see the boys do well, and we all get disappointed when they don't.
We'll all be there again this season urging the boys on, but you can't expect us to completely ignore the down-sides.
I think there have been quite a lot of positive vibes on this board.
The performance of the Pack in the first half, Trimble and Harrison, etc.
There have also been the inevitable results of a huge surge of disappointment from the performance last week. Most of us were hoping to kick the season off with a win to help put the tribulations of last year behind us, but it was not to be.
We are all here because we are supporters of UR and we all want to see the boys do well, and we all get disappointed when they don't.
We'll all be there again this season urging the boys on, but you can't expect us to completely ignore the down-sides.
Paul.
C'mon Ulsterrrrrrrrr!
C'mon Ulsterrrrrrrrr!
Rocky there were a few good things about the Irish game 
firstly for the first time in years a properly functioning lineout was in operation, we are not sure if it is because Shieldsy was too scared to miss or if he has got his throwing sorted, also Trimble is a great replacement for Bell and Maggs. 
The second half was a total horlix with far too many changes to say much about anything, this appears to have been on daft Eddies orders only to play internationals for 30 minutes.
Looking forward to a good thrashing of Rotherham on Friday night If not we could be in for a painfull season 
firstly for the first time in years a properly functioning lineout was in operation, we are not sure if it is because Shieldsy was too scared to miss or if he has got his throwing sorted, also Trimble is a great replacement for Bell and Maggs. The second half was a total horlix with far too many changes to say much about anything, this appears to have been on daft Eddies orders only to play internationals for 30 minutes.
Looking forward to a good thrashing of Rotherham on Friday night
If not we could be in for a painfull season “That made me feel very special and underlined to me that Ulster is more than a team, it is a community and a rugby family"
Rory Best
Rory Best
Thanks guys, that makes me feel better. I felt strongly tht our midfield simply didn't work last season so Trimble's good performance must be welcome. Here's hoping not to see Humphs kicking it to the wings just as much this year. Really looking forward to seeing Bestie at 6 and McMillen at 7, too.
Cheers,
Rocky.
Cheers,
Rocky.
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Cockatrice
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At least the Earth Titians had the decency to refer to their match against Glasgow as a training match and not a friendly slight difference I know but at least you know what to expect.
Don't think anyone was really getting at Kelly indeed how much of the defensive change is down to him is EOS not calling the style like last year.
I for one intend to go along and listen to Neil Kelly at the URSC evening they have arranged.
Don't think anyone was really getting at Kelly indeed how much of the defensive change is down to him is EOS not calling the style like last year.
I for one intend to go along and listen to Neil Kelly at the URSC evening they have arranged.
Currently studying Stage 5 (level3) at IRFU
Hi Rocky, i hold my hand up as one of the guys you probably have in mind re negative criticism and comment. To explain, from my point of view, i've worked part time as anartist for a good few years exhibiting pictures and so on and have had the 'that's rubbish', 'crap' no good and also the 'that's brilliant' type of criticism. Neither the brill or the crap comments do much for me. I would like tio think that my criticism either the negative and to be honest a lot of it has been of that variety has been backed up with some constructive comments.
I have noted in my 'unwashed' post the same sort of comments that Rooster has just posted so it's not been a diet of continual critique.
I do have issues as such though with the management of Ulster rugby and how that spills unto the field in terms of performance and i do try to avoid the 'rubbish' or 'crap' comment on it's own, for the sake of it. But basically for me and others on this board it is hard to ignore some of the realities of the performance on the pitch which at the end of the day is what matters to me as, (I hope you believe this), a fevrent supporter.
Like many others i endured a horrible 04/05 season on the Terrace at Ravers and at some of the away games and it was hard not be negative about it because some of the performances on the pitch where just that... negative.
It is perhaps fear that the mistakes so eloquently outlined by Mark McCall at the supporters AGM in March are about to be repeated and that we are in for another season of fiddling about with systems and planned new moves etc which fills me with foreboding.
I want to see the team win and of course that takes into account the fact there are actually two teams on the pitch but I think i've seen enough rugby to make my own mind up as to how or what Ulster can achieve with the players they have. We do have some GREAT players with skill in abundance and the committment to go with it but I feel those virtues are not always being allowed to express themselves on the pitch for whatever reason.
I know Rocky you have been closely involved in the Ulster team in the past so will know better than most how the players feel after a poor performance and i suppose coming on this board or the UR one after a poor game won't help. Equally if the team plays well they will recieve the plaudits but it would be remiss not to give the good news whilst ignoring the bad.
I hope this explains MY position, as I don't wish to hammer individuals for the sake of it though I appreciate it may come across as that sometimes.
I have noted in my 'unwashed' post the same sort of comments that Rooster has just posted so it's not been a diet of continual critique.
I do have issues as such though with the management of Ulster rugby and how that spills unto the field in terms of performance and i do try to avoid the 'rubbish' or 'crap' comment on it's own, for the sake of it. But basically for me and others on this board it is hard to ignore some of the realities of the performance on the pitch which at the end of the day is what matters to me as, (I hope you believe this), a fevrent supporter.
Like many others i endured a horrible 04/05 season on the Terrace at Ravers and at some of the away games and it was hard not be negative about it because some of the performances on the pitch where just that... negative.
It is perhaps fear that the mistakes so eloquently outlined by Mark McCall at the supporters AGM in March are about to be repeated and that we are in for another season of fiddling about with systems and planned new moves etc which fills me with foreboding.
I want to see the team win and of course that takes into account the fact there are actually two teams on the pitch but I think i've seen enough rugby to make my own mind up as to how or what Ulster can achieve with the players they have. We do have some GREAT players with skill in abundance and the committment to go with it but I feel those virtues are not always being allowed to express themselves on the pitch for whatever reason.
I know Rocky you have been closely involved in the Ulster team in the past so will know better than most how the players feel after a poor performance and i suppose coming on this board or the UR one after a poor game won't help. Equally if the team plays well they will recieve the plaudits but it would be remiss not to give the good news whilst ignoring the bad.
I hope this explains MY position, as I don't wish to hammer individuals for the sake of it though I appreciate it may come across as that sometimes.
Does anyone feel with Solly we overperformed and MMcC will never get us to where we were with Solly? Obviously the reverend was a huge loss but IMO I believe we have a pack to get ball and backs to score with it.
As a back and also a backs coach I basically feel MMcC's moves are pure dung. For inventiveness look to the super 12 and those coaches know how to make a move. We have some extremly talented backs and I feel Humph and Trimble could be our two key play makers this season we will get the ball but we have to use it well and with out Humph I can't see PW using it well.
Our problem has always been scoring tries but with Maxy Bowe Bryn and Trimble we have some very talented outside backs all who can pick good lines and have the pace to get through a gap.
I honestly just feel we don't have the right men in charge bar Ned Kelly. The fact your forwards coach tries to bully the younger members because he knows the older ones will stand up and not take his sh!te. Your backs coach has talented backs but simply can't seem to do anything with them when they get the ball.
People will give off how can you judge him on one game this season. But from last year and the Irish game the trend hasn't changed. I feel Friday is going to be a thing we should get used to. The plank gets in a fight and becomes an enforcer supporting others who get caught and basically giving us the grit we need. We have lots of ball and fail to break teams down and will end up coming away thinking we should have got something out of that as we wonder what might have been after another loss.
It is going to be a long season, I can't see it being succesful, but the bright spots I am looking forward to our young players coming through, the good aul big fight live on a Friday which there hasn't been since Mark Blair which should get the crowd going and hopefully the good old ravenhill roar back.
As a back and also a backs coach I basically feel MMcC's moves are pure dung. For inventiveness look to the super 12 and those coaches know how to make a move. We have some extremly talented backs and I feel Humph and Trimble could be our two key play makers this season we will get the ball but we have to use it well and with out Humph I can't see PW using it well.
Our problem has always been scoring tries but with Maxy Bowe Bryn and Trimble we have some very talented outside backs all who can pick good lines and have the pace to get through a gap.
I honestly just feel we don't have the right men in charge bar Ned Kelly. The fact your forwards coach tries to bully the younger members because he knows the older ones will stand up and not take his sh!te. Your backs coach has talented backs but simply can't seem to do anything with them when they get the ball.
People will give off how can you judge him on one game this season. But from last year and the Irish game the trend hasn't changed. I feel Friday is going to be a thing we should get used to. The plank gets in a fight and becomes an enforcer supporting others who get caught and basically giving us the grit we need. We have lots of ball and fail to break teams down and will end up coming away thinking we should have got something out of that as we wonder what might have been after another loss.
It is going to be a long season, I can't see it being succesful, but the bright spots I am looking forward to our young players coming through, the good aul big fight live on a Friday which there hasn't been since Mark Blair which should get the crowd going and hopefully the good old ravenhill roar back.