Fanning speaks...

Talk about the men in white, and everything Ulster!!

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
mikerob
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 9128
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:50 pm
Location: Chiswick, London

Fanning speaks...

Post by mikerob »

I know most people here will hate this piece but it illustrates one point perfectly - mud sticks.

http://sport.guardian.co.uk/rugbyunion/ ... 50,00.html

Red hand and a red mist as Brennan furore shows rugby's darker side

Fingers will be pointed at Ulster supporters after the incident in Toulouse

Brendan Fanning
Wednesday January 24, 2007
The Guardian

Even before meat was added to the bones of Brennanbait, the goading of Toulouse's most celebrated publican, it was not hard to picture the scene. Why would Trevor Brennan have been a target for the Ulster fans? For a few reasons: he is a high-profile figure with a history of being blinded by red mist; and he is Irish. Better still, he is from the south of Ireland.
It figured that the sectarian angle would feature early in the equation, even if it was quickly shrugged off by Brennan himself, who maintains that the abuse he suffered in Toulouse's Heineken Cup match against Ulster on Sunday was about his mother. The Ulster fans have earned something of a reputation for themselves.

On the one hand this is positive. They are the most loyal in the land and were pouring through the gates of Ravenhill for Celtic League matches while their more celebrated brethren in Munster were cherry-picking Heineken Cup games. So while the 'Low Lies' - as the casual fans in Munster are known (they occasionally come and sing about the Fields of Athenry) - were being selective, the sons of Ulster were marching without question to support the team that represented their identity. Unlike Munster, Leinster or Connacht, for Ulster there is a political dimension.
This was best illustrated by Davy Tweed. Ireland has four provinces feeding into the national team, with one of them doing so from outside the jurisdiction. It is unlikely they would ever refer to Ireland as being the "national team". And certainly not Big Davy. The Ulster second-row, now a DUP councillor in Ballymena, won three caps for Ireland in the mid-1990s, and his first, against France in 1995, was in Dublin. That meant standing to attention for Amhrán na bhFiann, the national anthem of the Republic.

In fairness he did not move a muscle though, as binoculars were trained on him, we wondered what was going through his mind. The quote attributed to him on learning of his first cap was: "After 30 caps for my country [Ulster] I've been selected to play for Ireland!"

Countless Ulster players before and after Tweed have had to endure the same ritual, though when the shoe is on the other foot in August, when Ireland play a warm-up game against Italy in Belfast, the only song getting an airing will be the apolitical, Ireland's Call, a dirge created to cover the gap in the welding job between north and south.

The other side of the Ulster fans' loyal support has been the attraction of a few floating football voters who have abandoned the awfulness of the Irish League in favour of rugby. Typically they would be Loyalists, fans of Linfield or Glentoran, for whom the prospect of a few pints on a Friday night at a packed Ravenhill, watching a winning team, was a whole lot better than what they had following football.

They brought some of the terrace culture with them and it has not been exclusively reserved for visitors. The vitriol that poured on the head coach, Mark McCall, when he was struggling in his early days in the job, was remarkable. The abuse of away teams also exceeds anything one would find in any of the other provincial venues. Last season, as Munster's centre Barry Murphy was being carried by stretcher from the pitch in Ravenhill in obvious agony, having dislocated his ankle and ruptured ligaments, a section of the crowd abused him. Murphy had done nothing to incite such an obnoxious reaction.

Thankfully it has not strayed beyond that small element nor has it come across the fence and on to the pitch in any significant way. Sledging was a part of the game long before it was christened as such and over the years the odd comment has passed in heated moments in inter-provincial matches. The remarkable thing is that it never escalated. It is as if there has been a tacit recognition among all concerned that, without being too precious, rugby was a mechanism for people from different traditions to play with and against each other without losing the plot.

The implications of the Brennan incident are most obvious for him and will cut short the last lap of a career that has thrived since he went to France. Ulster will have to take note as well. Some of their fans could do with observing some of the unwritten rules that have kept things sane for so long.
aarons
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 5301
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2005 8:06 pm

Post by aarons »

actually a pretty fair piece.. though i'd never heard about the barry Murphy stuff before - can anyone verify that?
Harold7
Warrior
Posts: 1084
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:36 pm
Location: Xena

Post by Harold7 »

I'd have to say that the piece about football fans coming in greater numbers is true. I don't have a problem with that at all, i just would rather they left their football style chanting at home. Still just the headline "Fingers will be pointed at Ulster fans" shows that a small minority can tarnish everyone.

Having said that it is interesting to note that Fanning has gone to a lot of trouble to illustrate alleged problems with ulster's support yet doesn't seem to address Brennan's penchant for violence.
colin_m
Novice
Posts: 256
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:27 pm
Location: We know where you live!

Post by colin_m »

Brennan's "penchant for violence" is not news. "Alleged problems" with Ulster support is.

Yes, it would be nice if you left your NI footie flags at home too.
Cap'n Grumpy
Chancellor to the King
Posts: 3440
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:28 pm
Location: At sea on an insignificant blue/green planet orbiting a sun in the western spiral arm of the galaxy
Contact:

Re: Fanning speaks...

Post by Cap'n Grumpy »

mikerob wrote:I know most people here will hate this piece but it illustrates one point perfectly - mud sticks.
Especially for those who throw it without any evidence to support the claims they make. But hey, it suits his purpose to believe without challenge what Mr Brennan claims and ignore the wealth of evidence and testimony that challenges it.
Cap'n Grumpy
Chancellor to the King
Posts: 3440
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:28 pm
Location: At sea on an insignificant blue/green planet orbiting a sun in the western spiral arm of the galaxy
Contact:

Post by Cap'n Grumpy »

aarons wrote:actually a pretty fair piece.. though i'd never heard about the barry Murphy stuff before - can anyone verify that?
I've heard the claims before, but dispute them. I remember the incident and it was evident immediately to most of the crowd that Murphy was in serious trouble. My recollection was that a silence descended as Murphy was treated on the pitch, followed by sympathetic clapping as he was carried off. IF there was any jeering, I was unaware of it.
User avatar
pwrmoore
Rí­ na Cúige Uladh
Posts: 11885
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:51 am
Location: East Belfast

Post by pwrmoore »

Cap'n Grumpy wrote:
aarons wrote:actually a pretty fair piece.. though i'd never heard about the barry Murphy stuff before - can anyone verify that?
I've heard the claims before, but dispute them. I remember the incident and it was evident immediately to most of the crowd that Murphy was in serious trouble. My recollection was that a silence descended as Murphy was treated on the pitch, followed by sympathetic clapping as he was carried off. IF there was any jeering, I was unaware of it.
That's what I remember from the Prom side of the field too. I do not recall any jeering.
Paul.

C'mon Ulsterrrrrrrrr! :red:
fan who never played
Novice
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:53 pm
Location: Belfast

Post by fan who never played »

Fair Aarons? Only another journo could think that. He refused to let facts get in the way of printing a story with a sectarian slant.
He ignores the fact that Brennan doesn't allege sectarian taunts and throws sectarian abuse himself. He even dredges up David Tweed from 12 years ago and thinks it is somehow relevant. Finally he knows what eye witness accounts say and chooses to ignore them.

Time for you to rethink "Fair" Aaron? :?
User avatar
mikerob
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 9128
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:50 pm
Location: Chiswick, London

Post by mikerob »

Fanning and Sue Mott's piece in the Telegraph are two sides of the same coin - they are both opinion pieces coming from their own perspectives so this is not the same as straight reporting.

Mott is really more of a footy journalist so focussed on the assault which would be the first item on the 9 o'clock news if a Premiership player did it and that anything the Ulster fans said would have been trivial compare to the average Premiership crowd.

My interpretation of Fanning's angle is the condemnation of Brennan had already been "done" and you can't defend the indefensible so he picked up on another aspect which was the behaviour of Ulster fans and the potential for this to be heading in a direction he doesn't like.
User avatar
colinh
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 5444
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:16 am
Contact:

Post by colinh »

Even before meat was added to the bones of Brennanbait, the goading of Toulouse's most celebrated publican, it was not hard to picture the scene. Why would Trevor Brennan have been a target for the Ulster fans? For a few reasons: he is a high-profile figure with a history of being blinded by red mist; and he is Irish. Better still, he is from the south of Ireland.
It figured that the sectarian angle would feature early in the equation, even if it was quickly shrugged off by Brennan himself, who maintains that the abuse he suffered in Toulouse's Heineken Cup match against Ulster on Sunday was about his mother. The Ulster fans have earned something of a reputation for themselves.
Disappointed that someone of the calibre of BF trying to invoke a sectarian angle. Also cannot disagree with witha lot of it but Ulster fans had a hard time in Munster during the CC semis. It was a small minority but it still happened and not a reflection of Munster fans. There are idiots everywhere which does not excuse it.

Also the incident with Murphy is not credible. When he was carried off the crowd aplauded him as noone likes to see any player injured. Did he BF hear it or where did his information come from.
Romeo47 Alpha 52
Cap'n Grumpy
Chancellor to the King
Posts: 3440
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:28 pm
Location: At sea on an insignificant blue/green planet orbiting a sun in the western spiral arm of the galaxy
Contact:

Post by Cap'n Grumpy »

I agree Mike

My problem with his piece is that he has taken certain allegations at face value without corroberating them, and chosen to ignore a lot of evidence which contradicts those allegations.

I would love to know where he gets his info from that "new" supporters are "Typically ..... Loyalists, fans of Linfield or Glentoran". I don't doubt that some may be followers of those teams, but don't see the relevence of naming teams or to use the highly emotive term "loyalist" in connection with them. I don't believe them to be "typical" either. Some evidence to support this would be welcome - I doubt if it exists.

As I have already stated, I dispute too, his account of the Murphy incident, where from my viewpoint, Murphy received a very sympathetic response from the Ulster support which is what you would want/expect.
aarons
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 5301
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2005 8:06 pm

Post by aarons »

fanning doesn't actually allege a sectarian angle, he just highlights why people might have thought that to be the case. which is one of the reasons why i think it's a pretty fair article..
User avatar
bogboy
Chancellor to the King
Posts: 3124
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:02 pm
Location: 2 close 4 comfort

Post by bogboy »

I am totally unaware of any abuse given to Barry Murphy and was at the match my recollection is similiar to the Capts

A silenced descended as it became obvious that the injury was serious and he was clapped off the field by the majority of fans 98%

2% may not have but I wish journalist would stop generalising, and try to put a figure on the things ,and thereby libel the majority

In every crowd there will be at least one Lunatic/Drunk/Bigot

And I wish journalist would accept that fact
2B or not 2B that is the question ?
User avatar
ding dong2u
Red Hand Ambassador
Posts: 2030
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:55 pm
Location: University of Walamaloo

Post by ding dong2u »

Don't remember any poor behaviour when Murphy was injured just applause as he was carried off ...... shame on Fanning for that cheap jibe :twisted: Would agree that there seems to be a lot more soccer supporters attending away games (only the European ones though) noticed a few chants in Reading after the game about Healy, We're not Brazil, etc Not sure what that has to do with Ulster rugby. The Melting Pot on Sunday night was just one long rant of soccer style chants and just became very boring ..... :roll: By all means support Ulster but do we have to listen to the other crap all the time. The rest of Fanning's piece is pure crap and what has Davy tweed got to do with the present day team or what happened at the weekend
Stand Up for the Ulster Men

RIP Nevin Spence 1990 - 2012
Solid Air
Initiate
Posts: 454
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:38 pm
Location: Green Dolphin Street

Post by Solid Air »

A wonderful piece of subjective journalism, Brendan Fanning has chosen, throughout his piece, to use language and examples which bring it all back to the common denominator of religion, and the further perceived notion of the Black Nordies, would have expected more from him.

Seems he might delighted if our Irish Squad representatives refused to set foot in Croker, held a silent protest during the National Anthem, refused to meet The President, asked for large oranges at half time, and only enter the field of play by their traditional route, it would give him something tangible to write about.

Look at the use of language, the most loyal in the land, the sons of Ulster were marching, countless Ulster players have had to endure the same ritual (standing for The Anthem), and the reference to the Loyalists of Belfast going to Ravenhill on a Friday night instead of football. This language is used and very well spaced, throughout his article, to leave the reader when finished, in no doubt as to the underlying suggestion of credentials surrounding Ulster Rugby, I feel this is a great slight, another one (!), on UR and it’s support.

Sets us back a bit Mr Fanning.
"Cheer up" he said "It could get worse", so I cheered up, and it got worse...
Post Reply