Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Questions for the players, the management, the UAFC, the URSC or other supporters... Someone might answer you!! (and pigs might fly)

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Jackie Brown
Rí­ na Cúige Uladh
Posts: 11723
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 1:15 pm
Location: Carrickfergus

Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Post by Jackie Brown »

Hardly like Ireland win big games. With and without Payne

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Gonna Party Like It's 1999
User avatar
BR
Rí­ na Cúige Uladh
Posts: 18579
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:12 am
Location: On a roll.

Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Post by BR »

So is JS admitting that he has failed to develop a second player in our squad good enough to organise our defence against the weakest side in the competition and one ranked being Georgia?
Can I come out from behind the sofa yet?
www.stoutboys.co.uk
User avatar
Snipe Watson
Rí­ na Cúige Uladh
Posts: 23443
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:42 pm

Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Post by Snipe Watson »

Cockatrice wrote:
Snipe Watson wrote:
Cockatrice wrote:
Snipe Watson wrote:
Cockatrice wrote:What we lack with Jared Payne not in the midfield has been particularly evident for us.
What we lack in midfield would not be cured by putting Jared into the team.
Our midfield problems are a symptom of a pack that is barely holding its own in the tight and is lightweight as well as way too slow off the mark in both attack and defence.
Snipe.. sorry not me that is what How's says of him.
:scratch: :scratch: That may make all kinds of sense in your head, but it doesn't on my screen.
thats what big fingers on a small phone get you… those are the words used by Joe Schmidt as are 'we're looking for him to control our defence again in the frontline' suggesting to my anyways that he is the defensive linch-pin. I have never seen it but if Joe says it then it must be true. I also watched a TV clip in which Connor Murray seemingly repeats the same PR ramble that Payne is the man that controls the defensive show on the pitch…
Oh right. I didn't listen to Joe's press conference.
To answer your original question then. I've seen little evidence of his leading of the defensive line at 13 for Ulster or Ireland. Doesn't mean he's not doing it though. He's a fine defender at 15 or 13.
User avatar
ruckover
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 7609
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:02 pm
Location: My house

Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Post by ruckover »

I've always found Jared to be a rather passive defender. Don't get me wrong, he makes 99 out of 100 tackles, but he very rarely knocks an attacker backwards, he likes to hit them side on and allow them to get over the gainline at the expense of guaranteeing a tackle.
You haven't seen me at my best yet. Let's be honest, you probably never will.
User avatar
Rooster
Rí­ na Cúige Uladh
Posts: 40137
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 12:39 am
Location: Chicken coop 17

Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Post by Rooster »

Jackie Brown wrote:Why doesn't he control the Ulster defence?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Well he has played in 2 matches this season and both were at fullback so a bit too far back to control it :roll:
“That made me feel very special and underlined to me that Ulster is more than a team, it is a community and a rugby family"
Rory Best
User avatar
Jackie Brown
Rí­ na Cúige Uladh
Posts: 11723
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 1:15 pm
Location: Carrickfergus

Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Post by Jackie Brown »

Rooster wrote:
Jackie Brown wrote:Why doesn't he control the Ulster defence?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Well he has played in 2 matches this season and both were at fullback so a bit too far back to control it :roll:
But he's never been a defensive lynch pin for us...

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Gonna Party Like It's 1999
User avatar
Rooster
Rí­ na Cúige Uladh
Posts: 40137
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 12:39 am
Location: Chicken coop 17

Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Post by Rooster »

Jackie Brown wrote:
Rooster wrote:
Jackie Brown wrote:Why doesn't he control the Ulster defence?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Well he has played in 2 matches this season and both were at fullback so a bit too far back to control it :roll:
But he's never been a defensive lynch pin for us...

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
That must have been what we were missing :shock:
“That made me feel very special and underlined to me that Ulster is more than a team, it is a community and a rugby family"
Rory Best
User avatar
scrum5
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 6078
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:42 pm

Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Post by scrum5 »

It wouldn't upset me greatly if Payne the centre only, left
In memory of Nevin Spence 1990- 15th Sept. 2012
Axel..... 30 October 1973 - 16 October 2016
Pedrie Wannenburg. 2 January 1981 - 22 April 2022.
Cockatrice
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 8218
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:06 am

Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Post by Cockatrice »

I pose the question out of interest not out of some underhanded motive.

The PR sell on JP from within the Irish camp is in my opinion OTT but then again they must have been chomping at the bit to get him NIQ given his apparent (but less than obvious to me) ability to be the defensive linch-pin in the Irish defence.

Yes he can tackle but as with others I see a more passive style rather than anything aggressive but then it must be his ability to lead and communicate to others. Again something that wasn't immediately obvious to me from what I seen from him at 15 for Ulster but clearly it was to Joe & Les.

I think McCloskey did well against England given the circumstances and in truth I don't think he deserved to be dropped indeed I think it would have been beneficial to see him operate against a possible weaker Italian 12/13 channel. Does Joe really need JP back this weekend to galvanise the Irish defence should be collapse against an Italian onslaught or is he hoping that JP and Henshaw can rack up a try or two to feel the offensive quality..

I just don't get it but thankfully I am not the coach… I am sure Les can't wait to get him back at Ulster and get rid of all that tom kite we have filling in for now…
Currently studying Stage 5 (level3) at IRFU
User avatar
Rooster
Rí­ na Cúige Uladh
Posts: 40137
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 12:39 am
Location: Chicken coop 17

Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Post by Rooster »

Cockatrice wrote:I pose the question out of interest not out of some underhanded motive.

The PR sell on JP from within the Irish camp is in my opinion OTT but then again they must have been chomping at the bit to get him NIQ given his apparent (but less than obvious to me) ability to be the defensive linch-pin in the Irish defence.

Yes he can tackle but as with others I see a more passive style rather than anything aggressive but then it must be his ability to lead and communicate to others. Again something that wasn't immediately obvious to me from what I seen from him at 15 for Ulster but clearly it was to Joe & Les.

I think McCloskey did well against England given the circumstances and in truth I don't think he deserved to be dropped indeed I think it would have been beneficial to see him operate against a possible weaker Italian 12/13 channel. Does Joe really need JP back this weekend to galvanise the Irish defence should be collapse against an Italian onslaught or is he hoping that JP and Henshaw can rack up a try or two to feel the offensive quality..

I just don't get it but thankfully I am not the coach… I am sure Les can't wait to get him back at Ulster and get rid of all that tom kite we have filling in for now…
I'm just totally confused why he puts fullbacks in the centre and a winger at fullback plus has a player who can't even make the first team squad for his province on the bench , we would be laughing at an an English or French coach for doing the same thing.
“That made me feel very special and underlined to me that Ulster is more than a team, it is a community and a rugby family"
Rory Best
User avatar
Russ
Rí­ na Cúige Uladh
Posts: 28295
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:27 pm
Location: Looking for George North's defence

Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Post by Russ »

Rooster wrote:
Cockatrice wrote:I pose the question out of interest not out of some underhanded motive.

The PR sell on JP from within the Irish camp is in my opinion OTT but then again they must have been chomping at the bit to get him NIQ given his apparent (but less than obvious to me) ability to be the defensive linch-pin in the Irish defence.

Yes he can tackle but as with others I see a more passive style rather than anything aggressive but then it must be his ability to lead and communicate to others. Again something that wasn't immediately obvious to me from what I seen from him at 15 for Ulster but clearly it was to Joe & Les.

I think McCloskey did well against England given the circumstances and in truth I don't think he deserved to be dropped indeed I think it would have been beneficial to see him operate against a possible weaker Italian 12/13 channel. Does Joe really need JP back this weekend to galvanise the Irish defence should be collapse against an Italian onslaught or is he hoping that JP and Henshaw can rack up a try or two to feel the offensive quality..

I just don't get it but thankfully I am not the coach… I am sure Les can't wait to get him back at Ulster and get rid of all that tom kite we have filling in for now…
I'm just totally confused why he puts fullbacks in the centre and a winger at fullback plus has a player who can't even make the first team squad for his province on the bench , we would be laughing at an an English or French coach for doing the same thing.
BOD says you need to get your best players on the pitch then worry about where they play ...

Why was Dorce kept so long then?
Cockatrice
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 8218
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:06 am

Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Post by Cockatrice »

Held the team together today..
Currently studying Stage 5 (level3) at IRFU
User avatar
BaggyTrousers
Rí­ na Cúige Uladh
Posts: 30337
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:29 pm
Location: España

Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Post by BaggyTrousers »

Cockatrice wrote:Held the team together today..
Not a monumental achievement against 23 dustbins but hey, credit where it's due, he played well and his timing was magnificent for his try.
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
User avatar
Jackie Brown
Rí­ na Cúige Uladh
Posts: 11723
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 1:15 pm
Location: Carrickfergus

Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Post by Jackie Brown »

Cockatrice wrote:Held the team together today..
Thank God he was at 13

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Gonna Party Like It's 1999
User avatar
BaggyTrousers
Rí­ na Cúige Uladh
Posts: 30337
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:29 pm
Location: España

Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Post by BaggyTrousers »

Did you see the way I just lapped him up and made no mention of the gift try he butchered >EW ....... after Cronin had butchered the first incarnation of that gift try.
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
Post Reply