Clermont v Toulon

[BaggyTrousers]

But they are not

Abendanon proved once again he cannot tackle

Armitage just flops over the ball. It's all he offers. He cannot link and is slow around the park

I'm also not convinced most of his flopping is legal

I agree with that lot, I had just finished instructing the crowd that Bendy was having a poor day compared to his performance against Saints, when that nice Mr Hayman stepped out of his way to allow a good try. From my view behind the sticks Hayman would have been within his rights not to have moved. I also though he had been blocked when he kicked and chased in what eventually became Toulon's killer blow try just before half time.

The TV folk did their best to hide the empty seats - an entire half of the top deck, sparse in most of the visible populated top deck and very sparse at the Toulon end. The Clermont end was jumping, I am now expert in their chants and joined with some gusto. excellent people.

I have heard talk of the Drew Mitchell try being fantastic, watching from behind him it appeared nobody wanted to tackle him.

I agree Russ about Felon's brother, he seems to flop over the ball to slow it then if possible gets somewhere close to on his stumpy fat wee legs to appear legal.

Quit enjoyable but a gutting result, love Clermont, great fans.

[ruckover]

Armitage is an athletic monster, and one of the best 7s currently operating. I would disagree Russ and Baggy, compared to most players Steffon is actually one of the more legal breakdown workers. Obviously not without his faults, but he's so big that when he gets in the right position he's impossible to budge - he doesn't need to use any streetwise tactics, simply barge his way through the centre of a ruck and get his mitts on the ball.

However, I don't blame Lancaster in the slightest for not selecting him. Armitage made his decision by going to Toulon, now he has to live with it. England are worse without him, but Lancaster has to stick to his guns otherwise he could see some of his other big names disappear off to France in the belief that they can still play for their country regardless.

[Snipe Watson]

Armitage is an athletic monster, and one of the best 7s currently operating. I would disagree Russ and Baggy, compared to most players Steffon is actually one of the more legal breakdown workers. Obviously not without his faults, but he's so big that when he gets in the right position he's impossible to budge - he doesn't need to use any streetwise tactics, simply barge his way through the centre of a ruck and get his mitts on the ball. I agree entirely Ruckie. He's a monster, but a very specialist monster. He's not a better back row player than SOB and he's only better than Chris Robshaw at the breakdown. Robshaw beats him into a cocked hat on workrate.

However, I don't blame Lancaster in the slightest for not selecting him. Armitage made his decision by going to Toulon, now he has to live with it. England are worse without him, but Lancaster has to stick to his guns otherwise he could see some of his other big names disappear off to France in the belief that they can still play for their country regardless.He is hoist with his own petard, well the eRFU petard. The lilly livered eRFU cannot even stand up to their clubs yet they come up with this entirely ridiculous regulation for reasons best known to themselves.

[BaggyTrousers]

Armitage is an athletic monster, and one of the best 7s currently operating. I would disagree Russ and Baggy, compared to most players Steffon is actually one of the more legal breakdown workers. Obviously not without his faults, but he's so big that when he gets in the right position he's impossible to budge - he doesn't need to use any streetwise tactics, simply barge his way through the centre of a ruck and get his mitts on the ball. I agree entirely Ruckie. He's a monster, but a very specialist monster. He's not a better back row player than SOB and he's only better than Chris Robshaw at the breakdown. Robshaw beats him into a cocked hat on workrate.

However, I don't blame Lancaster in the slightest for not selecting him. Armitage made his decision by going to Toulon, now he has to live with it. England are worse without him, but Lancaster has to stick to his guns otherwise he could see some of his other big names disappear off to France in the belief that they can still play for their country regardless.He is hoist with his own petard, well the eRFU petard. The lilly livered eRFU cannot even stand up to their clubs yet they come up with this entirely ridiculous regulation for reasons best known to themselves.

Away out of that, The ERFU reg is nothing unique, other countries practiced it for years, even dear old Ireland, though not formally, and all the SH teams, Australia only now relenting.

As for Armitage, he's a flopper first, then tries to get legal if it's to his advantage, saw it time after time on Saturday. I'm not decrying him as a player, it's simply what he does a lot of.

[Russ]

Armitage is also helped as he has a near identical looking flopper in the backline

[bazzaj]

He walks the line doesn't he, like all good 7s.
I remember when McCaw came on the scene everyone said similar things including myself, who thought he was simply a cheat.
We all know different now as his cheating is now swapped for intelligence.

Think there is a lot more to Armitages game than winning turnovers as he wouldn't have been European player of the year if he was that limited.
Toulon has improved him beyond recognition so I don't think he would be considered in the same terms had he stayed in England.
In fact that could be an argument in itself for letting players go abroad.
His move to France was a no brainer as he was not in genuine contention for an English place at the time and I don't recall any sort of clamour to disuade him.

Sextons departure didn't open any anticipated exodus floodgates when we continued to select him and the reverse has actually happened as hes come back
Habana and Botha continue to be selected by SA without any dramas so I don't know what England are so scared of.

Englands back row are all hard working but Armitages selection would bring an added dimension to them in terms the power and turnovers he offers.
Exceptions can always be made but its the stubbornness of the erfu and their faith in an honest grafting but limited captain that is capping their true potential.
Bear in mind that Armitage can play across the back row as well so please no one try and argue that he wouldn't be a better option than Haskell.

[Russ]

Bear in mind the pace of the international game is very different to French Top 14

The french love to plod for 78 minutes. Plod plod plod

[Russ]

Also if they pick Armitage I can see Wray opening up his big book pf litigation

[bazzaj]

Bear in mind the pace of the international game is very different to French Top 14

The french love to plod for 78 minutes. Plod plod plod

Don't know russ was that a plod for each of the last 3 seasons they have plodded over Europe.?.
They did a heck of a lot of plodding over us this season as well.
Plod plod plod.

[Snipe Watson]

Also if they pick Armitage I can see Wray opening up his big book pf litigation

Has it got nice pictures?

[BaggyTrousers]

Think there is a lot more to Armitages game than winning turnovers as he wouldn't have been European player of the year if he was that limited.

You are right Jizzer, nowhere did I say he was anything other than good. I simply think his short legged stature helps him avoid the going off the feet charge though I thought he did time after time on Saturday. I think he operates like every other 7 by stopping quick release and then deciding what's in it for him, keep a lid on it or Jeckyll as any good Ulsterman should describe the process.

He is very good at it. At Toulon he doesn't seem to need great pace because he has Juan Smith who is sharp on his toes & utterly magnificent, Chris Masoe, likewise & even Ali Williams who at his advanced years for a 5 is all over the bloody place.

Watching them from behind the post in a real contest, rather than the nothing game at Spanners was quite instructive, their forwards simply own the middle of the pitch and appear to trust their backs to cover the wide areas. I don't think I've ever seen a team do that so obviously, maybe that is how they appear to have so many 30 years plus men looking as fresh as a daisy.

The Brit media would have you believe Felon's brother is a one-man back row, I think he is the third best member of a magnificent back row, and mean that as no insult, Smith & Masoe were stupendous.

[Deraless]

Despite what we hear, would not be surprised to see POC there next year. He's old enough anyway. (Though I believe Pau could also be a possibility.)

Does Tinky Winky, Dipsy and La La know about this?

Armitage rarely supports his own weight. He has his knees on the tackled man most of the time.

[Spiffsson]

He walks the line doesn't he, like all good 7s.
I remember when McCaw came on the scene everyone said similar things including myself, who thought he was simply a cheat.
We all know different now as his cheating is now swapped for intelligence.

Think there is a lot more to Armitages game than winning turnovers as he wouldn't have been European player of the year if he was that limited.
Toulon has improved him beyond recognition so I don't think he would be considered in the same terms had he stayed in England.
In fact that could be an argument in itself for letting players go abroad.
His move to France was a no brainer as he was not in genuine contention for an English place at the time and I don't recall any sort of clamour to disuade him.

Sextons departure didn't open any anticipated exodus floodgates when we continued to select him and the reverse has actually happened as hes come back
Habana and Botha continue to be selected by SA without any dramas so I don't know what England are so scared of.

Englands back row are all hard working but Armitages selection would bring an added dimension to them in terms the power and turnovers he offers.
Exceptions can always be made but its the stubbornness of the erfu and their faith in an honest grafting but limited captain that is capping their true potential.
Bear in mind that Armitage can play across the back row as well so please no one try and argue that he wouldn't be a better option than Haskell.

Don't think his cheating is swapped for intelligence. He cheats as much as ever but the intelligence lets him get away with it. Never saw a bloke who spent so much time on the wrong side of a ruck without getting pinged. From recent Super rugby games, he looks as though time is catching up with him. He's no longer the sharpest looking NZ 7, but still, will probably lead the ABs to a RWC win in the autumn then pack it in or move to Toulon.

[ruckover]

Baggy is right, Armitage was the third best back rower on Saturday. Smith and Masoe were fantastic - the latter will be a massive loss to them next season (unless they do get Vermeulen). Doesn't take away from the fact that he is still a superb flanker.

Is Smith retiring at the end of this season? I know Hayman, Botha and Williams are.

[Russ]

Baggy is right, Armitage was the third best back rower on Saturday. Smith and Masoe were fantastic - the latter will be a massive loss to them next season (unless they do get Vermeulen). Doesn't take away from the fact that he is still a superb flanker.

Is Smith retiring at the end of this season? I know Hayman, Botha and Williams are.

Lobbe was better than him too