1F IN for France

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Rooster
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Re: 1F out for France

Post by Rooster » Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:40 pm

Ardglass2 wrote:Well I heard, from a reliable source, that the Ireland management wanted to play 1F against Italy but the medical boys said if you do he could miss the entire tournament. That suggests to me he cannot have been far off at all.
Her indoors was talking about this at work today and orthopedic opinion was similar to what you say the medics said, one of those things that for the sake of a couple of weeks rest could turn into months of healing and a further thump could well put him out for the season or even longer depending how bad it is and where he has damaged.
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Re: 1F out for France

Post by againstthehead » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:00 pm

absolute joke. if he's not fit, rest him. Ferris is injury prone at the best of times and away to a physical french side is asking for trouble!!
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Re: 1F out for France

Post by namron » Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:42 pm

Have to agree with you there againstthehead .According to an expert in the field {Dr Shaheed Panwar} "How quickly a bone bruise heals will clearly depend on the severity of the initial injury, as well as the level of activity in the healing phase.
A recent systematic review of the literature identified the percentage of complete healing of bone bruises on MR scanning ranged from 88 % after 11-16 months of follow-up in one study to 100 % after 5-12 months of follow-up in another."
We dont need the English to win the European Cup

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Re: 1F out for France

Post by Shan » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:00 am

Red Hand Hero wrote:
Ferris is ultimately a commodity and if he plays for 50 minutes and bucks himself but Ireland win they're in a much stronger position than playing without him and losing. It'll come down to what DK reckons is the best course of action for Ireland and potentially Ferris, i'd be of the opinion that without him Ireland haven't a prayer. Even at 70% he's better than either McLaughlin or O'Brien.
That's a pretty cold analysis RHH. You may have missed you calling.I hear they need new managers for sweatshops in Asia-----Work 'em till they drop eh? :)

That said it is a balls of a decision but I'm not sure Declan would be allowed to overrule the medics if there was a risk would he?
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Re: 1F out for France

Post by Rooster » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:07 am

Shan wrote:That said it is a balls of a decision but I'm not sure Declan would be allowed to overrule the medics if there was a risk would he?
They have risked players in the past in Eddies era, Tommy and Andy Trimble being 2 with hamstring problems, I'm sure there were a lot more.
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Re: 1F out for France

Post by WhiteKnightoftheWeld » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:08 am

france away possibly represents our toughest game of this championship. england could go on a run and going to twickenham could be a big task, wales at croke may also be a toughie, but away to france if they play like they did last week is a big ask.

front row and lineout are vital. how ROG gets the backs moving, game management by him and BOD, kearney and earls with the high ball - all important.

but at the breakdown, carrying ball, making massive hits - ferris along with wally and heaslip vs hairy-ordinary, dusatoir and oooooodragon will be the clincher. take ferris out of that and replace with mclaughlin swings this heavily in favour of the french. id prefer quinlan or possibly henry (only thing ruling him out is lack of experience) if ferris cant make it.

big risk if he's not certain to not aggravate the knock - could it end his season? is it better to blood someone else in a big away match? but im sure DK knows what he's doing, and he's got a top medical team in place to advise him.
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Re: 1F out for France

Post by ColinM » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:12 am

Rooster wrote:
Shan wrote:That said it is a balls of a decision but I'm not sure Declan would be allowed to overrule the medics if there was a risk would he?
They have risked players in the past in Eddies era, Tommy and Andy Trimble being 2 with hamstring problems, I'm sure there were a lot more.
Didnt he take a crocked Ferris to the RWC, depriving him of required rehab time and didnt even play him?

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Re: 1F out for France

Post by Ulster 4 HEC » Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:34 pm

Realistically, I don't think Ferris is going to make it. If he does it would be incredible. i'm not saying that he's a born leader, but his performances are very talismanic. I think watching him clatter someone with a big hit really inspires his surrounding pack. His intensity and physicality obviously rattled the Stade boys at Ravenhill. I'd say he's more than capable of rattling them and their counterparts again. He'd certainly take that supposed beast Bastareaud down a few pegs I'd reckon! He was distinctly average against Ulster in the Heineken Cup.

That said, I may go against the grain a little, but I'd rather 1F didn't play if he wasn't ready. As previously mentioned, if he was to take a bad knock in Saturday's game it could put him out of action entirely for a long long time. Is this something we really want? I'm not overly bowled over by McLaughlin either and would like to see Quinlan brought in for the France game. It's not particularly forward thinking with the World cup in mind, but we need someone really strong in at 6. I just don't think McLaughlin is good enough at this point in time for such an epic encounter. I'm no Quinlan fan, but his current form is undeniable. His recent Heineken cup performances were world class. This level of quality and experience is something we need, should Ferris be ruled out.

Thinking logically, I think that we should have had Quinlan in for Ferris for the France game. Baring in mind that we have a week off next week, I think Ferris would definately come back all guns blazing, close to 100% for another epic encounter, the England game. Evidently DK has ruled Quinlan out of the equation altogether. A tad harsh given his recent form.

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Re: 1F out for France

Post by Shan » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:15 pm

Red Hand Hero wrote:Not my personal opinion per se but i could understand if DK, a professional sports coach judged ultimately on results, took the gamble on him.
What's this? "I am not a horrible insensitive old b-llocks but I can understand the need to be one"

I like it. >TH >TH
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Re: 1F out for France

Post by bogboy » Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:14 am

Form is not the B all and end all a player with experience like Quinlan can play well at Magners level because of his experience but experience means nothing and counts for little if the player can not play up to the pace of the game ie Magners is approx 5 metres slower than International and thus well within the capabilities of Quinlan but like MoK 80 mins at International level well beyond them and he definitely would not be on the squad sheet come 2011

Playing Quinlan now is an opportunity lost better to give a player who could make the squad the opportunity to gain experience at this level now
2B or not 2B that is the question ?

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Re: 1F out for France

Post by Shan » Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:22 am

I agree with the general point Boggy and have stated this on here many times over the last couple of years.

In the specific case of Quinlan I agree he would not last the pace of a top international match for 80 minutes but to dismiss him as not capable of anything but playing in the Magners is just incorrect as his performance against Northampton showed.Quinlan is more than capable of performing at H Cup level for 60 minutes and of course in the Northampton game he was still going strong at the end of 80 minutes.
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Re: 1F out for France

Post by WhiteKnightoftheWeld » Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:45 am

bogboy wrote:approx 5 metres slower
metres are a measurement of distance, not speed.
Playing Quinlan now is an opportunity lost better to give a player who could make the squad the opportunity to gain experience at this level now
agree but is that what ireland should be doing in this game, or should DK be looking to preserve a winning streak and the momentum that goes with it?

we lose this we can still in theory win 6 Nations but grand slam will be gone. after last season anything less that a slam will be seen as a disappointment.
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Re: 1F out for France

Post by Ulster 4 HEC » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:01 am

I agree that forward thinking is vital and that we should have one eye on the world cup. On the other hand, I still reckon that Quinlan would have put in the best shift against France and would have been the best replacement for Ferris. I'd say he's been the 2nd best Irish 6 this season. Just because he's not the future of Irish rugby doesn't mean that he shouldn't be valued. The only reason that he's been overlooked is that he wouldn't be in DK's world cup plans.

I know Stade aren't the same as the French team, but they are at least comparable in style. We all seen how Ferris got under the skin of Stade at Ravenhill. Quinlan is notoriously a major annoyance for opposing teams. I'd say his rugby brain would have been invaluable. He could have slowed things down and generally annoyed the hell out of the French. When the French don't have everything their way it can really put them off their flowing, dangerous game.

McLaughlin will probably start on Saturday I'd reckon, and the experience he'll gain will no doubt turn him into a more accomplished international, but at the same time it is probably the biggest challenge of the entire tournament. I just think we maybe should have went against the current trend on this one and stuck Quinlan in for perhaps one last heroic performance.

Fingers crossed for Ferris though. I'm sure we'll find out whether or not he'll be starting this morning / afternoon.

All the best

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Re: 1F out for France

Post by WhiteKnightoftheWeld » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:10 am

Ulster 4 HEC wrote:Fingers crossed for Ferris though. I'm sure we'll find out whether or not he'll be starting this morning / afternoon.
dunno, if i were Ireland mgt i'd want to have the decision made today at the latest. however i certainly wouldnt reveal my decision until as late as i could get away with - keep dusatoir et al guessing as long as possible...

if it's to be mclaughlin good luck to him, hope he does a top job because with ferris' injury rate he'll be a big player in the ireland set-up for a while to come. and if he puts in a good shift and isnt outplayed sat afternoon could stand him in good stead come world cup and there wouldnt be any questions about throwing him in against a rocky elsom or bok/all black backrow
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Re: 1F out for France

Post by Ulster 4 HEC » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:59 am

Your right White Knight. I had read somewhere that they were going to make a decision on Ferris today. But I suppose that it'd be in DK's interests to keep his cards close to our chest on this one. No point in aiding the French with their tactics! I think we've enough to worry about. Still, 10 years since the last win, I think we are capable of doing it again. Just hope we can cope with their scrummaging and let our back line into the game a bit more this weekend.

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